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Original poster

please critique my letter to French teacher

62 replies

gramercy · 04/02/2011 12:34

Is this worth writing? I was already worried about the crap French teaching in ds's school, but now I'm apoplectic. Will I achieve anything?

Dear Miss X

It was nice to meet you at parents' evening and to hear encouraging words about ds.

I remain, however, a little perturbed about his progress. I noticed at the weekend that his homework was to learn the present tense of avoir and etre. I am rather concerned that pupils are only at this most basic stage by the middle of year 8.

I wonder if you could reassure me that the pace of learning will accelerate?

Yours sincerely
Gramercy

OP posts:
scaryteacher · 04/02/2011 14:05

Well, my ds is in Year 10 and doing his IGCSE French this May. He only learned the present tense of avoir and etre off by heart before the summer holidays because I drummed it into him. I have had words about verbs and tenses and have come to the conclusion that the only way is tp get a set of verb tables, and get them to do a couple of verbs in their entirety per week. I will be starting from half term and doing it hard and fast. I might link PS3 time to verb learning.

I think it is a very different focus from when I did my O level in 82 and my A level French in 1984

corblimeymadam · 04/02/2011 14:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SnapFrakkleAndPop · 04/02/2011 14:12

Worth writing but learning depends on independent work really - has DS had this homework before (and possibly just not done it)? It might be a revision before moving on.

'Modern' thinking on language learning disapproves of rote learning conjugations for some bizarre reason. I find it fairly essential, if a little boring!

Original poster
gramercy · 04/02/2011 14:13

Thanks for that. Do I conclude, then, that I would be bashing my head against a brick wall and I shall just have to make him do extra at home ?

OP posts:
seeker · 04/02/2011 14:15

Remember that "in our day" we started by learning stuff like this. They don't these days. What NC level do they say he's at?

UnquietDad · 04/02/2011 14:17

Perplexing. I remember the present tense of these two verbs being among the first things we did after "Je m'appelle" and "J'habite" and so on.

LoopyLoopsPoopaScoop · 04/02/2011 14:17

What on earth is your problem with this task?

Is he at a state school?

They will have come across avoir and etre in the present tense in year 7, but probably not have learnt it off by heart.

For what it's worth, I would probably be setting it as revision homework in years 9, 10 and 11 too for most pupils.

The teacher is doing nothing wrong. If you are so concerned with his curriculum, get a copy of it to look through and support him, don't go bashing the poor teacher who is following guidelines.
Also, it may not help your son to take this attitude with school. Teachers will become wary of this kind of over-zealous parent. I know you're only trying to get him to do well, but this isn't the way to do it. Maybe if it is private school, I don't know if tht changes things.

pointissima · 04/02/2011 14:20

DS, in year 5, has done etre, avoir and er verbs (present tense).

I think a letter will just wind her up. Go and see her and have a discussion

LoopyLoopsPoopaScoop · 04/02/2011 14:21

FWIW, easy (very loose, does not always follow) NC level breakdown for MFL:

1 - one word
2 - a sentence
3 - sentence with opinions
4 - paragraph with opinions
5 - use of 2 tenses
6 - use of 3 tenses
7 - fairly accurate use of 3 tenses with varied structures
8 - accurate...

NC levels aren't designed with grammar in mind. In KS3, opinions are deemed to be more important than conjugating verbs. I don't agree with this approach, but teachers have to go by it, it is the National Curriculum.

FreudianSlippery · 04/02/2011 14:23

Avoir and être were the first things we did in French in year 7.

Litchick · 04/02/2011 14:23

The way things seem to be now, MFLs are taught by subject units...the home, the family, jobs, directions etc.

Verbs and conjugating them, indeed grammar at all, seems to come along later. It seems arse about face to me.

But I understand it's because we don't want to bore children (as opposed to there being evidence that it is a better teaching method).

DC finally got around to avoir and etre in year 6. But they'd been doing French for donkeys years.

Original poster
gramercy · 04/02/2011 14:27

That Dulwich revision booklet looks useful.

I tentatively mentioned to the teacher at parents'evening that they seemed to be following some kind of "holiday French" course you might do in evening classes.

OP posts:
FreudianSlippery · 04/02/2011 14:27

I'm with you Litchick.

My DSDs are in yr8 and haven't done any grammar. They just learn vocab, how are they supposed to write sentences!

Original poster
gramercy · 04/02/2011 14:31

I don't understand, LoopyLoops - so if ds were in a private school I should expect better? Well, he's in a state school and I expect better. I'm not over-zealous (most of the time!) I just want my dcs to have a fair crack at the whip. I would never trash a teacher - it's not their fault. But I don't know what plonker deemed it ok to dumb down foreign language teaching so much.

OP posts:
LoopyLoopsPoopaScoop · 04/02/2011 14:32

gramercy seriously, Home Ed. If you want things done your way, do it your way. The curriculum is not the fault of the individual teacher.

"Holiday French?" See what GCSE he gets your way.

cat64 · 04/02/2011 14:36

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Message withdrawn

NadiaWadia · 04/02/2011 14:38

I agree - I don't understand the way kids are taught these days. I also remember doing 'avoir' and 'etre' in the first year of secondary school and it wasn't hard at all - the teacher kept going over and over it so everyone got it.

They seem to learn now by practising situations, like going to a cafe, etc, and learning vocabulary and phrases to do with that, and very little grammar. Unless they have a brilliant memory, they have usually forgotten those phrases a year later - because they don't understand how the language is put together.

Well that was DD's experience anyway. I encouraged her to choose French for a GCSE option as I thought it was a good subject to have with university in mind, but she doesn't have a gift for languages and found it hard. I was amazed by how little she knew. She managed to pass GCSE (grade C).

And yet the school put her in the top group! DD admits herself that she could hardly hold a simple conversation in French, OK she is not a language 'natural', but just what were the school doing over the 5 years she was being taught the subject? Something must be very wrong with the British approach to language teaching.

LoopyLoopsPoopaScoop · 04/02/2011 14:39

No, I'm saying I have no idea how it works in a private school, I can only vouch for the state system.

FreudianSlippery · 04/02/2011 14:43

"Unless they have a brilliant memory, they have usually forgotten those phrases a year later - because they don't understand how the language is put together."

Yes, that's the key here. My DSDs seem to think, because of learning whole phrases instead of practising the building blocks of grammar, that "je suis" is one word - they have NO clue that je=I, suis=am

So frustrating.

SnapFrakkleAndPop · 04/02/2011 14:51

I disagree loopy. It's perfectly possible to follow the curriculum and to introduce two essential, absolutely essential, verbs in their entirety early on. One of the first topics is family - you can be using both verbs straight away! J'ai use s?ur, tu as une s?ur. Je suis un enfant unique, tu es un enfant unique...

Avoir and être are presumably present in the work they've done in year 7... The Dulwich booklet seems to presuppose it as they're onto the passé composée and it's mentioned in Y7 hence I wonder whether it's revision before going on.

Regardless of the curriculum a teacher who slavishly follows the dictum of the textbook isn't doing the students any favours. If I did that you'd think the present continuous was the most common tense in the English language, closely followed by the present perfect...

LornMowa · 04/02/2011 14:51

Perhaps the letter you have drafted would be better sent to the heads of examining boards and your MP. I too am shocked at the low standards expected of our children.

My French teacher wouldn't let me enter for the O level as I wasn't up to standard but I still feel that my knowledge (of French) is far superior to that of my son who has been studying it recently.

I have French CSE (Grade 2) however, these days I am sure I would be in A* territory.

SnapFrakkleAndPop · 04/02/2011 14:52

Oh and I totally agree with that Freudian - you can't grasp a language unless you know what the components build up to.

Original poster
gramercy · 04/02/2011 14:59

And everything is about me, me, me:

J'aime le sport

je m'appelle Josh

je deteste l'education physique

How on earth will they ever engage in a conversation?

OP posts:
LoopyLoopsPoopaScoop · 04/02/2011 15:04

The fact is, there is very little time in year 7 in which to cover everything. Teachers will often have an hour per week with the pupils, possibly a little more. In this time, over the course of 39 weeks, they have to cover a lot of subject matter. I'm fairly sure most Y7 groups will have come across present tense avoir and etre in most forms (probably not vous/ils/elles) and used them, but usually they won't have learned them parrot-fashion at that point.
Because of modern (and I'm not a fan of it either) thinking regarding the teaching of grammar, it is deemed bad practice to drill whole conjugations of verbs early on. Such a lesson in year 7 would not be marked as satisfactory by Ofsted. Sadly, that's just the way things are.

SnapFrakkleAndPop · 04/02/2011 15:15

Bugger OFSTED Grin - I don't plan verb drills into a lesson, I just pop quiz them every week on have, be, do and go. The more advanced the class the more complicated the tense but it reflects what they're learning. Takes 3 minutes, OFSTED never need to know.

Besides if every Y7 teacher explained the verbs as they came up, told the class it needed to be learnt and had a flashcard revision activity pop quiz at the start of every lesson (picture of a girl and a boy, give them elle to start) they'd soon learn them without thinking, which is the way it should be, and OFSTED couldn't criticise revision of previous lessons!