Can Ds really be this clever - objectivity needed!

[splodge2001]

DS is 9 and goes to a state primary. We recently got him assessed to see whether we ought to start tutoring for selective entrance exams - we're in Central London so our options are weighted towards highly academic independent schools, for which a scholarship would be needed.

The results we're not what we expected at all. We have become used to parents with children in state schools being told that their children would need at least 1yr tuition. Our guy said hardly any was needed at all.

I'd like to get a view on how well regarded his particular assessments are as I'm considering getting a second opinion:

GRADED ARITHMETIC MATHEMATICS TEST - P.E. VERNON

Scores: Mathematical Quotient: 130+
Mathematical Age: 12:03+
Percentile Level:97.7+

ENGLISH - NEALE ANALYSIS OF READING ABILITY - SECOND EDITION

Comprehension (READING AGE 12:02, Standardised score, 131)

Accuracy (READING AGE 12:10, STANDARDISED SCORE 108)

probably not much help, but when I took the 11+ (many moons ago) I was widely expected to pass - I had a reading and maths age of 15 (I was 10 and the youngest in year). I failed and I think this was because the test questions were set out in a way I had never encountered before - neither my parents or the school practised with me. Several other pupils at my school passed - they had varying levels of tuition/past paper practice.

Hope someone comes along who can intepret those scores.

I agree with icancancan that exam technique is something that your DS probably still needs to learn. A tutor who is familiar with the format of the questions should be able to help your DS decode what is expected from the question and answer in the required format.

It may be given your DS's very good results he won't need much tutoring if you are going for 11+ entry but a tutor could also check that he has covered all the necessary topics for the exams. I think 11+ tend to be more NC based than the 13+ which are generally taken by kids in prep schools.

If you are thinking of going for scholarship level then tutoring will be needed. My son's prep does additionally work with those boys aiming for scholarships at 13+ rather than just entry.

BUMP

Anyone familiar with these tests?

Make sure that at the very least he gets to do a few of the non-verbal reasoning tests otherwise he really won't know what's hit him.

These test results show that your son is a gifted mathematician, and should pass a selective test easily but tuition would not do any harm. The English accuracy standarised score of 108 does need a little work. A broad entry grammar school (eg. Kent) tends to look for standardised scores of 120, so he may need some help with the verbal reasoning and English in particular.

If you are looking at super selective indies or grammar schools, then 120 is not enough AFAIK.

The problem with the highly selective schools is that many of the children will also be in the top few centiles, so whether it is enough to get a good scholarship, hard to tell. Neale's test is just an oral one though isn't it - has your ds been assessed on his written English?

Have you looked at what sort of papers your ds would sit for entry at each school?

I have to say that so much comes down to how the particular child performs on the day of the exam, and exam prep is where tuition comes in handy. Speed and accuracy is key.

His written English was assessed and is apparently of a high standard - LADYMUCK

He does all the Bond Assessments at home and is really good at non-verbal reasoning but hates comprehension and verbal reasoning

I get worried when I see that he doesn't always write in proper sentences and his punctuation seems insecure.

I was all set for giving him a bit of a boost right now with a tutor, perhaps not weekly but maybe a couple of half days during half term?

His maths looks fine but I would want to see similar scores for verbal and non verbal reasoning. Don't be too dazzled. DS1 always scored over 130 in all categories. There's a lot of practice to be done and they need to sort out their exam technique, too. A tall order when you are 9 or 10! but DS scored 134 and 139 when he did sit (scores amalgamated across the three categories). Keep him working, don't just assume it will all be ok. And read up on what the standard deviation scores mean - these are not the scores of a genius, honestly! Though I'm sure he's a bright lad.

My son has been assessed similarly, but it doesn't indicate a genius in the making.

My lad's a bright boy, and I'm pleased for him (and proud)....but don't get carried away thinking your lad is stand alone clever. Those scores are pretty run of the mill for the bright kids.

In fact - there are three other kids, besides my lad, that echo those scores too.

Be pleased and tell him well done, but I wouldn't take out a notice in the local paper just yet.

I had an adult reading age at 9 and I'm as thick as shit.

Pmsl CK!

my lad had neuro psych tests done last year and was found to have an exceptionally high iq (top 3 percentile for his age) but very low processing skills, because of this he is allowed extra time in any formal assessments :o

Yeah my DS1 is a good couple of years ahead in everything, but quick thinking isn't his strong point and sometimes we have to ask/tell him something a couple of times, or re-phrase it to make sure he totally understands what's what.

EG - I was in the bath once and asked him to go and get my hairband from my makeup basket. He came back with my bathrobe cord from the laundry basket

This is the child whose mental arithmetic is better than mine or DP's, and who I always turn to when I can't remember when someone's birthday is

It's long time since I studied Statistical methods in Psychology as part of my degree - but I'm assuming Acanthus that you're referring to the 68% confidence band.

For comprehension it has been given as: 113-125

I'm assuming that this indicates that 68% of the population is likely to fall somewhere between 113-125

That's not the system I'm familiar with. Ours is that 68% will fall between 85 and 115, with 96% between 70 and 130. So over 130 puts you in the top 2% of the cohort but if you think about the numbers of kids in a school that's great, but not astonishing.

I don't know if this helps as we did not go down the public school route, but when I tested my daughter at about 8 using the Neale analysis, she had a similar reading age.

She is now in Y7 and (if the school is to be believed!), acheiving a NC level 6A for her literacy - Level 7 being a GCSE pass.

This doesn't make sense as the average must be 100, as they are standardised scores. Maybe it means that there is a 68% chance that his score actually lies between 113 and 125.

Sorry, actually her reading age was around 16yrs aged 8 for decoding and about 12+yrs for comprehension - just checked it.

If he is in Year 5 and not sitting any tests until next January then you can probably hold off any exam prep for a couple of months. Obviously if there are gaps in his knowledge then you need to address those.

As others have said, 130+ is not that uncommon a score amongst those children who sit for the more academic schools. But just because his score may be unusual in a state school, he'll be up against an awful lot of other kids with equally impressive scores, and the current year 5 group is a particularly tough year as it is a high birth year. I know a lot of boys who sat 10+ at some schools, and have been surprised as to who was called for interview and who wasn't. Definitely some of the heavily tutored ones got through to interview whilst the "brighter" ones didn't shine on the exam day.

Ah, didn't make it clear before, he's in year 4

Time to get going then! Sounds as though he'll need to work harder on the English and VR, but remember that the won't cover all the maths needed for the exams within the national curriculum so you'll need to cover some of that too.