All this stuff about private school kids being overrepresented in universities..

[fivecandles]

out of interest does anyone know whether if a child goes to a private school up to age 16 but then a sixth form college or FE college to do A Levels the student would count as private school or state school in the stats? And how would university admissions tutors look on such a student?

If the private schools do so much better then we sould let as people suggest all parents take a voucher of the £5k cost per child and spend it at private schools and top it up or as suggested give those who saved the state (I saved the state age 4 - 18 x 5 - 65 years? of state school costs = £325,000. That could then be used against university fees as your reward for saving the state the cost of the educatino of your chidlren. Am liking this train of thought very much.

Labour was the one indtroducing vouchers for private schools let us not forget which was very funny at the time - for 3 and 4 year olds.

If people are given vouchers, won't they all then want to go to certain schools and not others (fair enough) but then what happens??

Will it just not end up the same as it is now, whereby there is a great stampede to the'best' schools and a great swathe of pupils for which there is no room at those schools?? Seriously, can someone explain how it would work in practice??

Or it would be like the new 'free schools' where actually no-one wants the 'undesirables' regardless of them having vouchers or not.

That's called market forces, thelastresort. It's how markets work and how we ensure consumers get the best of everything. It's the opposite of state provided services which are often a load of rubbish.

As I've said - I'm not sure about the voucher proposal - but I think I understand it's appeal.

In a free market, choice and competition drive up quality and efficiency. More importantly ineffeciency and poor quality are driven out, as business offering an inferior service fail and are closed down. And that's roughly what happens in the independent school sector.

The voucher poposal is an attempt to create a 'free market' for state education.

Do you think education should be marketed like a business??

I still don't understand what is going to happen when the most desirable schools are filled up, will they expand to accept everyone who wants to go there? Won't they then become too large? Will they really accept everyone who wants to go there? Won't there be some form of selection??

Do you think education should be marketed like a business?? What about education for education's sake, regardless of market forces??

I still don't understand what is going to happen when the most desirable schools are filled up, will they expand to accept everyone who wants to go there?

Won't they then become too large? (and thus no-one wanting to go there...).

Will they really accept everyone who wants to go there? Won't there be some form of selection?

I can understand the voucher scheme's appeal to some parents, obviously, but, in reality, how will it work?

The voucher system could work out better than we think. Not every parent or every pupil wants a selective elitist education at heart. What I'm trying to say (clumsily) is that an education voucher would be like a book token. Not everybody wants a Latin textbook and not everyone wants a cartoon picture book. Under the present system large numbers of children are being forced to use a "one education fits all" system that actually doesn't fit anyone very well. Do other countries use the voucher system? I think we ought to be looking at best practice in other countries before we pooh-pooh any changes which could be for the better.Maybe we should watch and learn more.

I am not pooh-poohing it.

I genuinely don't understand how it works in practice.

I just think everyone will want certain schools (not unreasonably), and no-one will want other schools (at least not for their children, might be ok for other people's children :)).

Xenia I like your idea about university fees being paid for partly by vouchers unspent on secondary education.
the last resort I take your point and really don't know how vouchers would work out in practice. You say that everyone will want certain thriving schools and no-one will want other schools - no change there then from the present system?
OP your original question seems to have grown legs and run and run! Are you anywhere near an answer?

I can see how a voucher system might benefit parents like us ie parents who take an interest in their DC?s education and are involved enough to come and discuss it on forums. I am less clear how it would benefit DCs whose parents either aren?t interested in education or who do not have the wherewithal to examine all the options open to them.

So we?d still be left with the situation that bright DCs from a disadvantaged background wouldn?t be in a position to benefit from a voucher system. Or would there be a way of addressing this?

There's absolutely no chance that private schol parents will get £5k a year to spend on univesrity education because they spared the state the cost of educating their children, sadly but it made me good to write it.

MNany parents couldnt' care less about their chidlren's education and things like what the uniforms look like or how close the school is to their home or is it single sex or Catholic matter most to them so vouchers extended beyond the 3 and 4year olds they have them for at present might work quite well. Again there is no chance of them as private school parents save the Government a fortune and there is not just the money there to give us back a free education when we pay so much at the moment.

In a sense the new scheme if it ever works of Gove that parents and groups can set up schools kind of works like a collective voucher. one for example they are picking as feeders the richer primaries (average house price £600k) and leaving off the one on the sink estate so I imagine that suits the aims of some who are not honest enough to segregate children by school feels rather than simply by house price.

See the other thread about setting up 'free' schools. Am afraid the voucher system would end up the same as now, wouldn't it? i.e. those 'in the know' getting the best schools.

I don't doubt there are many (not me) who think this is perfectly ok and hard luck on those who aren't informed enough/or rich enough to make the right 'choice' in the first place. More fool them.

The voucher system wouldn't work. As Xenia says, it is all down to market forces.
If the Government gives everyone a £5k then all that will happen is that Independent schools fees will rise overnight by £5k (they will invent some extra, to ensure that Independent provision is seen as better than State) and we are back to the educational status quo, except that the Treasury is worse off.

It was tremendously successful. We used it at the pre prep etc. Some people used it at the nursery part of private schools. I don't know if it's still in place for 3 and 4 year olds.

I don't think privaet fees would fise by £5k,. Academic private schools bend over backwards to get clever poor children in - Manchester Grammar etc and very very few are not charities and all the money is ploughed back into the school and about 80% of fees go on teacher wages.