The Teaching of Reading: What can parents do???

[Catflap]

Hi there to all who have followed my phonics ramblings on many a thread, and indeed to those who haven't but are interested in this thread title!

I have commented a lot on the state of poor reading teaching in schools and described the effective method of synthetic phonics which is beng taught in a few schools but largely ignored by the educational establishment.

It has been fascinating reading the comments and observations that everyone as parents has on their children's reading - it amazing how many of you pick up on things that the teaching profession are not accepting. I have always found parents to be a preceptive lot. However, what is also sad in this case is how many of you put your trust and support in your children's teachers - which I wholey support because we are losing that fast - but in this case it is sadly misplaced.

The Reading Debate is discussed quite widely online now and has made its appearance in the news recently. You can do a search for 'synthetic phonics' and it will present you with plenty to read, but a thorough site for discussing the issues and providing you with information is the Reading Reform Foundation website

The thing is, lots of you are recognising the issues and are understanding the sort of methods that I describe and see that it makes sense. But what do you do??

I thought I would just post with a few suggestions, as it would seem pertinent after all my advices to offer some pointers for more positive action! Thing is, it's not that rosy an outlook, all the while the Government continue to rrefuse to accept that there might just be something in this synthetic phonics lark and teachers are driven by pressure from above...

However, should you believe that there is something in it and feel it could help your child, I would personally suggest that you have the following options open to you:

1. Do nothing. The chances are that your child will eventually struggle through like many thousands have in the past and will read successfully, or in some fashion, or will struggle and be offered some sort of remedial help eventually.

2. Teach them yourself. Get your hands on some resources and information and provide your child with the skills and knowlegde they need. This is of course is labour intensive, has some financial implications and could be seen as not your job...

3. Find a reading tutor that practices the same philosophies. This could be hard as there are few scattered around, but by posting on the messageboard of the above RRF site, I'm sure you will find someone who could help. (I myself am planning to get into that at some point, but not whilst dd is still so small and more are planned!)

4. Hound the teacher and then the school. Equip yourself with all the necessary facts and information and maybe get a team of parents and ask questions and get answers. Maybe even contact your LEA.

Meanwhile, online tuition will continue to be available whilst I am still managing to access this board!

Hope this helps give a bit more direction and a conclusion to previous discussions.

Is he on Ritalin? I have taught several ADHD boys before and after Ritalin and it makes quite a significant difference. Not that I'm advocating it; I just meant what sort of medication was he on if any so there was an indication of how far his behaviour was affected.

Going on the theme of this thread, all my ADHD boys were taught synthetic phonics and it was very successful with all of them.

I have read a little about Steiner schools as there are some around here and in particular a toddler group I was thinking of for dd. Why did your ds's Steiner education stop, esp if you found it so successful?

Sorry no more helpful things to offer just yet.

I've come on to this thread too late probably!

If you are still there, Catflap - I've read through some of your threads (or threads you have contributed to) and it all makes perfect sense to me! I have a couple of questions you might be able to answer (if you have time, sorry, you must be so busy answering all these mumsnet queries - maybe you should set up your own web service. You could earn a fortune).

I have two sons, one aged 6.7 and one 3.1.

Ds2 concerns me a bit because his speech is slightly behind, so I had him seen by a speech therapist and he apparently has a 'mild delay' in expressive language (although 'understanding' is within normal limits for his age), which they think should right itself during this (nursery) year. His hearing needs to be double checked as he wouldn't do all the tests first time round.

My question is this: should I start Ds2 off on letter sounds? I had started doing letterland with him but I read your comments on Letterland and now feel that maybe I should stop that. I remember when ds1 was in reception, his class teacher asked me to get him out of Letterland as soon as I could. If Letterland is no good, should I start on Jolly Phonics or is ds2 too young and should his speech be further on before I try? We do read a lot to him and he likes books, which might be enough at this stage?

My other worry is that the school my children attend (ds1 in yr2 now) are very strict on cursive writing. Ds1 is only just getting the hang of it properly and it has held him back, even though his verbal knowledge is great. The school seems unaware of what he is capable of because he doesn't 'record' his work to the level that they expect. I find this difficult to accept and feel that they have demoralised him and that we are working to catch up all the time.

Any suggestions about any of this gratefully received!

I am but shall reply fully tomorrow. Hope that's OK.

Thank you! I won't be back on here until Wednesday so no rush, although I am sure I must be one of many with similar questions.

I do believe in phonics but I don't understand what I should be doing with a 3 year old who can't say all of the sounds properly yet. I would like to get him into books and maybe also reading as early as is possible for him and his own capabilities.

But I am really worried about my 6 yr old, just gone into yr2. The writing issue seems to be too much of an issue at his age. Lots of people tell me that they all end up with beautiful writing, being taught cursvie from the word go, but I am worried about my son feeling so demoralised. He was such a bright and optimistic chap at the begining of reception!

Don't get me wrong - he hasn't completely dropped out of orbit. His reading and spellings are ok as is science and maths (as long as you do it verbally with him) but I do see a pattern developing which I don't like.

DS1 had serious articulation problems at age 3, even at 4. He had masses and masses of sounds missing. But he learned to read very early primarily using phonics - though not as 'pure' as Catflap would advocate

As long as his language and hearing is fine - it's purely an articulation problem - there is no need to delay learning to read.

There were loads of sounds that my ds1 could not vocally differentiate between, even when he was 5. But he could hear the difference, and would pick out the write letters for you, even though he couldn't personally pronounce them. We were told by SALT and teachers that he would be a late reader, and would not be able to learn using phonics ... Utter rubbish! He's one of the best young readers I've come across, and has been far and away top of his class in literacy ever since he started school.

I hope that is encouraging to you.

Pastarito,

My ds1 was diagnosed with moderate/severe problems when he was 3.2. He had no problems with his hearing or with his receptive language but his expressive language was seriously delayed/disordered (12-18 months behind where he should have been).

He has been having regular speech therapy for two years now. At first the SALT helped him to get more language (he had hardly any verbs, for example). Once he had enough language, she began to work on the specific speech sounds, most of which he had a problem with. She did this using the Jolly Phonics pictures (!) so I would say they are perfectly suitable for what you want. She highly recommends JP. My ds1 has always enjoyed using the pictures and they have worked very well.

As his work with the SALT progressed, it became obvious to me that he was learning to read using these pictures. At around the same time, I read one of Catflap's posts on this site, advocating the use of synthetic phonics/JP when teaching children to read. I have been helping him with his reading ever since and he is now one of the best readers in his class.

My ds2 is 3.4 now and I have started to teach him his sounds, using the Finger Phonics book. He had seen his brother doing speech work with the SALT so many times that he was desperate to do "speech work" too - so we showed him the first book and he picked it up very quickly! And he was still 2 at the time.

The only thing I would say is that sometimes, when ds1 can't produce a sound correctly, I model it for him. As long as he can hear the sound correctly and match that sound to the right letter, he will be ok, just remember to model it so he can hear it correctly.

Best wishes to you, I hope it all works out.

I am in the process of writing an account of how ds1 learnt to pronounce his sounds correctly and to read using JP. If you would like a copy of this, please CAT me. It sounds like your ds will not speech therapy but if you feel it would help you in any way to learn more about what the SALT did with my ds1, please don't hesitate to get in touch.

Hi pastarito - well, now I've made it to this thread, there's not really much to add to what roisin and chocolategirl have to say.

Whenever I have introduced the sounds, I have always found it helped those with speech difficulties and I used to use mirrors for each child so they could se what their mouth was doing. I emphasized pronunciation alongside handwriting while introducing letter and sound.

Have a go and see. If you keep it fun and multisensory and work from his interest and level of attention etc it can't do harm to see how it works. Good luck!

Thanks very much chocolategirl and roisin. I will definitely start ds2 on Jolly Phonics as I still have all the stuff from when ds1 did it!

Thanks Catflap as well. I can see that the mirror thing could be really useful.

What did you think about ds1s handwriting issue?

I'd second all that Roison said, as DD1 has/had a speech problem. Some articulation, perhaps verbal dyspraxia. She has een a SALT since 2.10, she is now 4.7 and much much better.
We were warned that she may find it hard to learn to read because of differentiating the sounds and the way that she pronounced sounds wrong.
She has known her letters since 3.6, and started trying to read at 4.3. She can read basic words now, even though she still doesn't pronounce all of the sounds correctly.
In fact (proud mummy here!!) she is receiving a certificate on Friday for being the best at all the letters and reading in her class. After all the worry about her speech, this is wonderful!!!

Sorry pastarito - completely overlooked that one. Can you please tell me a bit more about it? As I understand so far, ds1 has trouble forming the letters neatly and his difficulties are hindering his other work e.g. creativity or is it that he cannot form each letter as he is supposed to, or can't do the cursive style? Thanks for clarifying - sorry for being thick.

Hi there. Yes, Ds1 has always had a few issues with his writing, which is considered slightly behind the standard the school expeced for his age group. However, I thought that his writing didn't look all that bad (but then my writing was messy all through primary too).

The problem seems to be that the school teaches cursive from reception and ds1 didn't seem to have sophisticated enough fine motor skills to be able to form all theletters properly. So he got demotivated right from the word go. At the end of Reception, the teacher told me that I (!!) needed to re-teach him his correct letter formation, and that I needed to do it by using different materials (e.g. writing in the sand). So I dutifully went off and tried to do this, but my son was always unwilling to do yet more writing work after a day at school. We got into a bit of a vicious circle.

Yr1 was then difficult as well as ds1 was slower to finish some of his work because he was taking longer to do the writing properly. I went in to see the teacher many times as I couldn't understand what was going on. Ds1 is quite bright, but only comes across as such when you speak to him (ie. he can spell words fast verbally, answer questions on many subjects, he is articulate etc). So as far as the national cirriculum is concerned his ability is invisible, as it seems (although I am not sure) that they are assessed purely through their written work. There are no oral tests. So we tried to work with him all through year 1 but he was still a bit demotivated. Especially as the school puts them on tables according to level of ability and his 3 best friends were all on the 'fast' table - the children who are expected to get 3s across the board this year (yr2) in their sats. Ds1 was moved about 7 or 8 times and it really seemed that the teacher didn't know what to do with him. He was in a high(ish) reading group but that was about it.

Now, he has just gone into yr2 and has a teacher who seems more on the ball. He likes her a lot and already things seem to be improving. I am just concerned about the school's obsession with writing. I notice that friends children who go to other local schools are not expected to write cursively yet and this seems to take a lot of pressure off.

Sorry, this has turned into a full scale rant, which I didn't mean it to be.

To finish off, I think my son is now getting the hang of writing clearly and confidently but his writing still lags behind what he is able to do verbally. In other words, I think it is holding him back.

We are still helping him with writing at home and trying to suport the school with this, but then time is taken up which I could otherwise spend doing a bit more maths or reading, which are also important.

Am I worrying too much?

Hi there - sorry for the delay in response.

It sounds as though your ds has been rushed at the start when the remedial methods suggested to you (!) were the sort of thing that should have been carried out by the school at the start...

I can see exactly how the vicious circle has manifested itself :-(

The curriculm is heavily biased to children who have the typical academic skills - so those learning literacy and numeracy well and able to convey their thoughts in well written work will do well - according to the tests. It's so unfair - one of the reasons I am happy to be out of the job. Every term I had to do a 'maths test' with my Year 1s which was all written and I hated it - so many could do the practical maths concepts but couldn't write about it... I tried to refuse but would have got myself in heaps of trouble for what was missing from their portfolios... grr

I can see why you need your rant, but happy that things seem to be better with this new teacher.

Meanwhile, if he is ever keen to produce some work that requires him writing at home, could he record his thoughts on a tape or video, or dictate it for an adult to scribe?

I have found that 10 mins handwriting practice a day makes a phenomenal amount of difference. Forget the joining the dots monstrosity - I used to write the letters in a pale felt tip e.g. pink, yellow, light blue etc with a dot at the starting place and have children just trace right over the top - after demonstrations of how to form the letter so they are not toally in teh dark. Take the letters in groups of similar shape e.g. the onces that all start with a 'c' shape first: c, o, a, d, g, q. Then, once they were getting the hang on the letter with a trace, O would just write lots of 'c's so they had the reminder of how to start and then had to write the rest by themselves.

Just 10 mins of tracing like this a day - and then moving onto words and phrases - made such a difference and made writing in other contexts more effortless. It was labour intensive, however. COuld be worth a try if you were willing at home?

This would help you do something to support him at home but leaving time for other things.

I can't say you are worrying too much - from your description is seems it has been bothering your ds, but keep doing what you are doing and hopefully with this new tacher things will go well as well.

Good luck.

Just finished reading this thread. It's taken me about an hour! I began reading it way back when the first post was made but haven't had chance since to go back. My goodness, it's better than East Enders in parts!

Anyway, I made lots of notes of things I wanted to say along the way, but the thread has changed direction so much now, I've decided to leave it unless it rekindles itself.

Catflap, I have a question about the writing. Do you ever teach the lead-in ascending strokes? I also teach letter groups such as c,a,o,d,g etc. but tried to teach the letter 'c' with an ascender and it was an absolute nightmare. The letters were all over the place. I just wondered whether it develops with perseverance, or whether it is better just to get the correct shape in the beginning, i.e. the JP format.

go for it nelly - you might rekindle it! I'm interested, anyway.

With the letter 'c' do you mean that pre-joined up style when the stroke begins on the line and leads up to the start of the letter? If so; nightmare! I reckon the letters definitely have to be taught as discrete entities first and the children to understand what they look like in everything they will read and worry about thesew ascenders specifically for handwriting later, when letter formation is fluent.

OK Catflap, I couldn?t resist the challenge! With regard to letter formation, this is what I am beginning to believe too. Will discuss with colleagues. Thanks!

QoQ PLEASE don?t take this as having a go, because I am not but do you actually know what reading method your ds?s school uses? I?ve read the advice that they give and have noticed that your ds?s teachers mention the word decoding in their instructions, as well as all the other advice like looking at pictures and sight words. Maybe they teach more phonics than their reading instructions would have us believe. Just a thought as to why their results are so good!

I felt that it was important to say that not many teachers are taught how to ?teach reading to beginning readers? as part of their initial teacher training. Some teachers who have struggling readers in their class will presume that there are a percentage of children who are ?dyslexic? (and I?m not presuming your ds?s teachers have this viewpoint.) Teachers with this belief will put struggling readers through the education system, which continues to fail them. These teachers are dedicated, hard working, excellent teachers, doing everything by the book, but are unknowingly imprinting a reading reflex of guessing and memorising that cannot easily be undone once learned (a bit like trying to stop a bad habit).

There are some teachers who are not prepared to accept that some children ?just are? dyslexic. These teachers search for reasons why and often purely by chance come across the answer. You are a very lucky parent because you, like so many teachers, just happen to have stumbled across this. It wasn?t until I discovered the history of how we came to put spoken language into print that it all made sense.

Tamum, synthetic phonics teachers don?t teach a ?rigid approach of synthetic phonics?. It couldn?t be father from the truth. Somewhere along the line has developed a distorted view of what teaching synthetic phonics involves. We use fun, interactive methods. We don?t expect a child to be able to read any words that include phonemes that haven?t already been taught. We provide a wide variety of reading materials. We provide texts that have been carefully written so that they are decodable but also interesting, fun to read, stimulating, will challenge their reading ability and improve their comprehension. The reading material provided by a synthetics phonics teacher is more likely to be very carefully thought about, and more often than not will have fought for these reading materials. I have seen far more stimulating and interesting books than the ORT, but also decodable. IT IS POSSIBLE TO HAVE IT ALL!

rainthepain, I have to disagree with you when you say that ?one consistent method no matter how flawed has got to be better than confusing them by introducing other methods at home?. Aloha has already made a doctor analogy, but imagine if a doctor prescribed a medicine that you thought was having an adverse affect on the neural pathways in your child?s brain, would you continue to administer that drug because you assume the doctor is right? No chance! You would ask for a second opinion and find out more. I know this is an extreme example, but this is how serious this is.

You also say your dh ?had a relative who was thought to be a child genius at reading. He was astounding everybody with his skill. It turned out he had memorised every word of the books he owned. He is in fact dyslexic now but wasn?t diagnosed till later due to his apparent skill?. This is EXACTLY what is happening by teaching the mixed methods approach. If he had been taught using synthetic phonics he wouldn?t be guessing and memorising words!

Gobbledispook, this is fantastic. I wondered if you would mind posting this and future progress onto the synthetic phonics website success stories. I know everyone on there would love to hear about how your ds1 is progressing using JP. www.syntheticphonics.com

I showed by boys the "Ruth Miskin's Nonsense Words Test" from the synthetics phonics site, and they both loved it. They thought it was hysterical - and both read them really well. No hestitations at all until the final box, which they both tackled very well.

Can I just ask do all the words have only one correct pronunciation following strict phonics?
DS1 pronounced scight as 'sight', ds2 as 'skite'
'wacespink' was pronounced 'wace-spink' by one and 'wace-ess-pink' by another.
'feanlissable' was prounced 'feen-lissable' by one and 'fee-an-lissable' by another.

roisin, this is really great, I love it when children mispronounce words, it sounds like you had fun with this. I would say that there is only one way of pronouncing the words that you list here.

?scight? is correctly pronounced ?skite?
?wacespink? is correct by the one who said ?wace-spink?; for the pronunciation ?wace-ess-pink? there would need to be another ?ess? in the middle as in ?wacesspink?
?feanlissable?, was correct by the one who said ?feen-lissable?; for the pronunciation 'fee-an¬lissable' it would have to be ?feeanlissble?. I don?t think there would be any other variation.

We are past the 'learning to read' stage, but I am still fascinated by the subject. Nelly0706 can you name or link to the 'far more stimulating and interesting books than the ORT, but also decodable'. I'm interested as to what they are.

On the higher level decoding, ds1 gave 'sight' as a pronunciation (self-correcting his initial suggestion of 'skite') because, he told me at the time, of science and scissors. What do you think?

I would say that because he knew that letters ?sc? could represent the ?ssss? sound as in ?science? or could represent the ?sk? sound as in ?scare? he opted for what he thought was the most likely of the two, thought about it then decided on the alternative. There are only certain letters that can follow the letter ?sc? which would make it into a ?sssss? sound. The great thing about reading phonetically, is once you know how the code works (and this is a good example) if the word doesn?t sound right when you say it one way, there is a very good chance it will be right when you say it the alternative way. Of course, when you are reading nonsense words you don?t have any context to draw upon like you do in real text.

Roisin, sorry I didn't answer you question about the books. Ruth Miskins books and the Nelson Thornes Sound Start series.