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The Teaching of Reading: What can parents do???

221 replies

Catflap · 29/09/2005 13:17

Hi there to all who have followed my phonics ramblings on many a thread, and indeed to those who haven't but are interested in this thread title!

I have commented a lot on the state of poor reading teaching in schools and described the effective method of synthetic phonics which is beng taught in a few schools but largely ignored by the educational establishment.

It has been fascinating reading the comments and observations that everyone as parents has on their children's reading - it amazing how many of you pick up on things that the teaching profession are not accepting. I have always found parents to be a preceptive lot. However, what is also sad in this case is how many of you put your trust and support in your children's teachers - which I wholey support because we are losing that fast - but in this case it is sadly misplaced.

The Reading Debate is discussed quite widely online now and has made its appearance in the news recently. You can do a search for 'synthetic phonics' and it will present you with plenty to read, but a thorough site for discussing the issues and providing you with information is the Reading Reform Foundation website

The thing is, lots of you are recognising the issues and are understanding the sort of methods that I describe and see that it makes sense. But what do you do??

I thought I would just post with a few suggestions, as it would seem pertinent after all my advices to offer some pointers for more positive action! Thing is, it's not that rosy an outlook, all the while the Government continue to rrefuse to accept that there might just be something in this synthetic phonics lark and teachers are driven by pressure from above...

However, should you believe that there is something in it and feel it could help your child, I would personally suggest that you have the following options open to you:

  1. Do nothing. The chances are that your child will eventually struggle through like many thousands have in the past and will read successfully, or in some fashion, or will struggle and be offered some sort of remedial help eventually.

  2. Teach them yourself. Get your hands on some resources and information and provide your child with the skills and knowlegde they need. This is of course is labour intensive, has some financial implications and could be seen as not your job...

  3. Find a reading tutor that practices the same philosophies. This could be hard as there are few scattered around, but by posting on the messageboard of the above RRF site, I'm sure you will find someone who could help. (I myself am planning to get into that at some point, but not whilst dd is still so small and more are planned!)

  4. Hound the teacher and then the school. Equip yourself with all the necessary facts and information and maybe get a team of parents and ask questions and get answers. Maybe even contact your LEA.

Meanwhile, online tuition will continue to be available whilst I am still managing to access this board!

Hope this helps give a bit more direction and a conclusion to previous discussions.

OP posts:
Cam · 02/10/2005 19:55

Both my dd's (one is 32 and one is 8) learnt to read at school, I didn't consciously teach either of them to read nor did I question how they were taught as they both got along just fine. I did read lots and lots to and with them though, for fun, no pressure.

They both happen to have a facility for literature (like I did at school) and both happened to have reading ages far beyond their years.

That's it.

aloha · 02/10/2005 20:16

I'm sorry but your faith that the current methods of teaching are the best doesn't stand up to research. Just because 'professionals' do something doesn't mean it is always the best or most appropriate method.
And I don't think it is in the least bit 'obvious' that many people are forcing their children to do anything. I think that's quite an accusation tbh.

foxinsocks · 02/10/2005 20:20

I don't know about any of your kids, but there's no way I could force mine to 'learn' to read if they didn't want to. If I tried to do that, they just wouldn't bother to learn.

Just because a child happens to read well doesn't necessarily mean they will be reading texts they don't understand. e.g. In the ORT, the books tend to get longer rather than more complicated. I'm sure it does happen but I doubt there are many sensible parents who force their children to read texts they won't understand.

rainthepain · 02/10/2005 21:27

aloha dont know if you work or have a career but I dont think you would be happy if people were to criticize your methods.But either way ifeel that one consistant method no matter how flawed has got to be better than confusing them by introducing other methods at home. We should try to support our class teachers who do a brilliant job often with poor facilities and large classes.Of course I must mention the millions of children who are disadvantaged whos parents are not well educated and are not capable of willing to be proactive in their education.They have to trust the teacher to do right by them and I feel that by and large schemes like 'Oxford' do allow the majority of children of all capabilities to learn at their own pace. Hurray for Biff and chip! thats what I say!

wordgirl · 02/10/2005 21:29

Of course the majority of children will do ok however they are taught, but that's not much consolation for the 20% that don't is it?

rainthepain · 02/10/2005 21:35

Aloha You obviously have a problem with reading because nowhere in my thread did I accuse parents of forcing their children to read. You know that I said encourage. Children are very perceptive. They know when a parent is urging them to do well. thats just the mild cases you know there are a lot of pushy parents out there You know there are a lot of 'bragging' parents out there. If I was a teacher who was reading catflaps Reading Reform Advice and who knew the parents of her pupils were about to 'hound'her about alternative methods I would throw my arms up in despair. At least I would feel very undermined.

rainthepain · 02/10/2005 21:44

Word girl The schools that I have been aware of give extra support to children who are sruggling by giving them one to one or work in small groups. I'd love to know where you get the 20% from.Don't forget, schools have targets now and it is not in their interests to let children get behind. If you feel that your child is struggling in reading or any area of his or her education you can always talk to the headteacher who is duty bound to answer you concerns. If a child has a language problem then insist on a statement.It might not lead to extra help but once the child is on the school's special needs register then they are bound to do everything in their power to help your child to improve.I just dont believe it is right to use any other method without the school at least knowing what is going on with your child

rainthepain · 02/10/2005 21:57

Foxinsocks Im afraid thre are a lot of children out there who do develop precocious reading skills. Thy are bought books because they can physically read them. Apart from the fact that this is not good emotionally( Some of the subject matter Jacqueline Wilson writes about is totally unsuitable for a 7 or 8 yr old. Also when a child reads literature that is too advanced they tend to skip over words because they cant read them and an adult isnt always there to ask. Also more importantly teachers have pointed out that if a child skips stages of reading development ie racing on because he/she thinks it can tackle a harder book then this can do damage in Phonetic development. Dh had a relative who was thought to be a child genious at reading. He was astounding everybody with his skill' It turned out he had memorised every word of the books he owned. He is infact dyslexic now but wasnt diagnosed til later due to his apparent skill.

aloha · 02/10/2005 22:51

You didn't just say encourage RTP. I can read perfectly well and I read your posts. You seem to think that anyone who takes an interest in their children's ready is 'pushy' (I quote btw)
Why should I just assume that the person who happens to teach my son (when he gets to school) is the perfect person to teach him and will teach him in the best way for him. I'm afraid I think I know my son better than any teacher ever will, and not only that, I am perfectly capable of evaluating different teaching methods and of reading studies about teaching methods and drawing my own conclusions. Do you not remember your own schooldays? Some teachers are wonderful and inspirational, others....are not. And even the most wonderful teacher may not have been taught herself the most effective methods of teaching children to read. Studies show mixed methods work less well. Why would I want my child to learn less effectively? It's like saying, every doctor is fantastic and wonderful and should never be questioned, so if your locum gp says your kid has flu, and you think he has menigitis, you should just put up and shut up. I don't think this is how intelligent people operate.
As it happens, my ds will read before he goes to school so it's a purely academic discussion. Tbh, I'm more concerned about other children, who may be set up to fail because the government clings to outdated notions about teaching children to read. I think all children deserve the best. And btw, the biggest study on synthetic phonics was conducted in one of the more deprived parts of Scotland. Coming from a poor background makes it far more important that children are taught well.

aloha · 02/10/2005 22:57

Oh, and in my job (I'm a freelance journalist) I get my work criticised/edited etc every day of the week. I'm a big girl. I can take it.

tigermoth · 02/10/2005 23:33

All sorts of interesting points being made here. I do want to put trust in my son's teachers. I want to trust them to teach my son to read, using their professional expertise. I need to feel I can trust them because I work full time. I am home later than 6.00 pm each evening. My dh works full time too. We have another son who needs our attention as well. I simply do not have the time to read to and with my youngest son, teaching his jolly phonics etc etc for long hours each evening. This is one thing that gets me about the ' reading for pleasure' points. All so well and good if you have lots of hours with your children each evening. What happens if, like me, you don't? Fostering a general love of books, reading stories aloud to your children, not rushing them, having spin off discussions - and doing this every night - all these things take time.

I think rainthepain is right in saying any reading methods you follow at home should complement what is being taught at school. I am worried about confusing my son even more. That's why I am waiting to find out what my sons year 2 teacher makes of him, before suggesting anything.

tigermoth · 02/10/2005 23:40

re general reading skills and suitability of books - my oldest son who picked up reading easily. But he is still not IMO emotionally mature enough for many so called children's books he has the ability to read.

For instance, I don't think he'd make much sense of Phillip Pullman's Northern Lights triology, though I know many of his friends have read it in the last year or two. I don't think it would suit ds1 to be exposed to some of the more adult emotions described in it.

aloha · 02/10/2005 23:46

I have to say I learned to read before I went to school and I'm very glad I did. I think a diet of Peter and Jane books would drain the enthusiam of any child.

tigermoth · 03/10/2005 00:07

It was 'Janet and John' in my day, and how boring I found them! I was never a great reader till the age of 9 or 10 when something just clicked and reading became easy. I can still remember how I realised that suddenly, I could read and, more to the point, actually wanted to read for pleasure. Perhaps my ds2 will be like this - a leap when he is ready.

Wordsmith · 03/10/2005 08:24

I'm a literature graduate and I can honestly say studying at higher ed put me off reading decent books for years.

Cam · 03/10/2005 10:06

I remember how shocked my mother was when she realised that I'd read all the books on my father's bookshelf at age 8, Ian Fleming, Harold Robbins, Neville Shute etc, I just read everything I could get my hands on.

rainthepain · 03/10/2005 15:04

Aloha read my threads again! I did not say that 'every' person who takes an interest in their childrens reading is pushy or did I use the word 'force' Do not misquote me and distort others views about my threads

Cam · 03/10/2005 15:27

But do you believe that children can read way above their actual age without "pressure" rainthepain?

homemama · 03/10/2005 15:53

Just a few points;

I have taught children in very deprived areas with unstable family lives whose parents have never heard them read and yet they can read well beyond their years. Some children just possess this natural ability and it has nothing to do with pushy parents.

Aloha, even as a teacher, I wouldn't put blind faith in my son's teachers partly because I know better and partly because as intelligent adults we must accept that no profession is perfect. With regards to mixed methods. IMO and IME, this does not work at infant level and certainly not at foundation level. However, for those children coming into the juniors having 'mastered' the basics and who are confident at 'sounding out' new words, it works very well and helps improve and develop their reading skills further.

Tigermoth, your situation is common and you certainly mustn't start feeling that you're letting down your son by being unable to hear him read so often. Talking to him, asking him questions and showing an interest in what he's doing/learning is equally (if not more) important. Read things when you can such as the menu at pizza hut etc and he'll be fine. If you're really worried about phonics, get one of those alphabet wall charts and practise when you can. Again, as his mother, you're the best judge of the suitability of his reading material.

Cam · 03/10/2005 16:34

What a cool post homemama

homemama · 03/10/2005 19:53

Thank you, Cam.
I just don't see why the whole debate has to be so black and white. The teaching of reading and the process of learning to read just isn't like that.
Undoubtedly, the teaching of phonics is hugely important in equiping children with the basic skills to tackle new words. But as they progress, then picture clues and other 'look and say' methods help put words into context and increase comprehension.

Catflap · 03/10/2005 22:00

ooh, have been offline for a couple of days and a lot has happened!

Would just like to make the following comments:

aloha
some fab posts - really enjoyed reading them. You make some great points: am taking note of many of them!

roisin and everyone who supported her message
to echo other people's thoughts - synethic phonics is all about equipping children with the skills and knoweledge to access the alphabet code. Why? To help them become fluent in decoding the written word. Why? To help them be able to find meaning in information; to help them be able to enjoy a good story and even their own abilities! Why do people persist in thinking that SP is devoid of comprehension and meaning? What would reading be without those things? Do people really think that SP proponents really just want children to bang away at boring texts without understanding what it is about??

The thing is, phonics teaching as an exclusive method has bad press derived from limited phonics teaching not working and unimaginative methods being demotivating. However, I am yet to hear of anyone (and this is through extensive reading and talking with fellow sp practitioners, be the teachers or parents, who have employed sp properly ) who has had their child taught sp and feels it is ineffective. No one. It just doens't happen. So everyone here who is dismissing its success for reasons they have little experience to back up really should go and find out a few facts first. Your comments against it really do show your ignorance about the full methods, philosophy and practice behind synthetic phonics.

I must also say that the support for class teachers is admirable. There are too many parents against from the start these days - far too keen to attack teachers for all sorts of ignorant reasons. However, teachers can only be as good as their training, their experience and analysis and their motivation. And much as we would like to beleive, few teachers have adequate training in reading - and many on online teaching forums will admit this - few actually sit back and analyse their own reading practices - too many just accept that there will always be this groups who will struggle - and many are demotivated by pressures and dictats from above... Teachers also have different priorities - I had a passion for reading...and I have to say my teaching of maths may have slid a tiny bit as I did not put a similar amount of effort into it. Many teachers teach reading in the ways that are largely successful and think no more about it - instead putting their energies into other aspects of teaching.

Also, this learning style nonsense is a current fad and should not have so much importance placed upon it. Before you think I am totally against it, let me say I am largely a visual learner. I have a photographic memory and will totally remember something if I see it and guaranteed to forget it if I hear it - that is, if I managed to pay enough attention to take it on board in the first place...

However, to determine the principal learning style of an infant is incredibly hard - not least because it can fluctuate.

In addition, many subjects have preferred learning styles and all must be taught for a balanced education regardless of preferred learning styles. Should we never teach art to auditory learners? Should we never teach appreciation and understanding of music to visual learners? Just as art is visual and music is predominantly auditory save for reading music) so reading is auditory and visual and the phonological awareness and matching of spellings must be taught to all children. Kinaesthetics are just an aid that helps all children - particularly those who are more that way inclined, but isn't there a famous phrase that goes something like 'I hear and I forget; I see and I remember; I do and I understand?'

By the way, I am not aiming that at the one person who I recall said their child was pronounced by a friend (?) to be a kinaesthic learner - it was more other comments of such a nature that led to my desire to comment on the whole learning styles issue.

As far as I'm concerned, having read widely and equipped myself with a lot of facts and practised teaching of reading for many years, the issue of teaching reading is black and white - as it the teaching of many other subjects who do not receive this sort of debate.

Our written word is a visual representation of our spoken word and was created for letters and series of letters to stand for individual sounds in our language. This is fact.

Although added to from all manner of different languages, our current English is still largely phonically regular and can be taught systematically.

Through being able to decode fluently and acquiring this skill rapidly, more time can be spent understanding and appreciating and extrapolating information from what is read. And more time can be spent enjoying what is read - because the reader can read. We should read to gain meaning - not use assumed meaning to guess the words, surely??

There are thousands of children out there who can show what a success synthetic phonics teaching is. If it were made compulsory and every teacher adequately trained to understand how and why is should be carried out, the results would be phenomenal and everyone would be wondering why the hell this was not done years ago. Until then, many more children are going to have to suffer.

It seems to be reading that creates the hottest debates - maybe because it is the most misunderstood. I don't hear of people beating on driving instructor's doors if they or their children have failed, demanding that they teach through a variety of methods. There is pretty much only one way to teach someone to drive a car. There is only really one way someone learns to read.

OP posts:
Gobbledispook · 03/10/2005 22:03

catflap - ds1 is only 2 weeks into reception and jolly phonics. Tonight when reading a book he was able to work out the words 'cap', 'hill', 'box', 'tree', 'start', 'play' and even 'station'!!!!

These were just the ones I suggested he try as we went along.

Suitably impressed!

rainthepain · 04/10/2005 09:18

As a mum of children who are all virtually grown up I am bound to have a different perspective. Most of you are still at the proactive stage where you feel lots can be done to improve your childrens skills. For me it is more if they dont know now they probably never will because improving reading skills for older teenagers just doesnt seem an option. It gets lost in the masses of other work they need to do, or becomes irrelevant in their working life. Thanks for an interesting debate.

Cam · 04/10/2005 09:24

One of my dd's is 32 rainthepain