University Tuition Fees

[dorotheehw]

How can mums support the student protest against the rise in tuition fees for higher education. I went to uni one day a week when my children were 8 and 12. I could not have afforded it under proposed fees nor would I have wanted a debt of £30.000

We will see what the economy looks like in 5 years and I doubt it will be any better. It will also be too late for a whole generation of current 12-16 yr olds.

Exactly christmas.

"As long as the rich, largely public school educated MPS and their friends are ok, they really can't see the problem and they will continue to cut where they won't feel the impact."

But fivecandles - higher education is about the only publically funded service which is consumed almost exclusively by the middle and upper classes.

I can't think of a more middle class service to cut - r4 perhaps?

jackstar, that might be true to a point but they have hit the lower paid families with these cuts to a greater extent by withdrawing the need to offer means tested bursaries, afaik. Not much has been said about this so it remains to be seen when the new prospectus' say.

ATM it is at least possible for kids from working class backgrounds to go to university. I send kids from the most deprived backgrounds every year on to universities including Oxford and Cambridge. From next year this will be difficult to impossible. There's plenty of research to say that kids from poor backgrounds are most likely to be debt averse. At the same time the Govt is cutting programmes like Aim Higher which are encouraging working class kids to go into HE and EMA which encourages them to stay on and take A Levels. Their agenda is clear and its about making HE more exclusive and limiting opportunities for workign class kids.

Forgot to mention EMA, which don't forget is means tested so again this is hitting lower income families only. DD was entitled to it.

fivecandles - I did say that some Conservative MPs have said objectionable things. I would include Howard Flight's comments in that. I also pointed out that some Labour MPs have also said some pretty objectionable things, as have some LibDems (but not so often - there aren't as many of them!). I do not go in for tarring all members of any party with the same brush. Any major political party has a wide range of people within it. Indeed, the right wing of the Labour party has more in common with the left wing of the Conservative party than some of their own left wing colleagues.

For what it is worth, it is a long way from being true that all Conservative MPs are rich and publicly school educated.

'More detailed research is being undertaken by The Sutton Trust, but there is a clear trend with a marked increase in the number of new MPs who were privately or independently educated.

The following figures are based upon 73% of the new intake (170) whose educational background has been publicly declared: 19% of the class of 2010 were grammar educated, 47% state educated and 35% private/independently educated.

This compares to the new intake in 1997, where (of those known) 38% were grammar, 46% state and 13% private/independent. Consequently, there has been a direct shift from grammar educated new MPs in 1997 to those who are now privately educated.

45% (of those known) of new Conservative MPs in 2010 were privately/independently educated, compared to 7% of the new Labour intake in 1997.'

Also gender,

'The new Parliament will have 139 female MPs, equating to 21.4% of the new Parliament.

This is a slight improvement on the 126 female MPs (19.5%) in the previous Parliament.

There will be 48 Conservative women (36 newly elected), 78 Labour women (31 newly elected), 7 Liberal Democrat women (1 new) and 6 women from other parties (4 newly elected).

In comparison, at the 1997 General Election, 28% (71) of the 256 newly elected MPs at the 1997 General Election were female.'

www.theclassof2010.co.uk/new-mps---our-analysis

So, quite clearly the majority of Tories are white men from a privileged upbringing with nearly half having been educated privately. Hardly in touch with the average Joe or Joanna are they?

And you can argue that Flight and Young are not representative of the whole party but they did have a duty to represent their constitutents and they were/are policy makers. Young was enterprise adviser to Cameron yet his views are abhorrent.

Yes, its actions that speak louder than words but lets look at the actions shall we because they are completely in tune with the attidues that underly Flight and Young's views. The Tories actions so far have been about hitting the poor hardest while Mr Top Man and the banks don't feel a thing.

Cameron, descended from aristocrats, went to Eton and then Oxford.

Clegg went to Westminster and then Cambridge.

George Osborne, heir to the Osborne baronetcy, went to St Pauls and theen Oxford.

Is it any wonder that they don't understand or care about the education of ordinary folk?

Fivecandles - in the 1997/2010 total figures you quote - the increase in privately educated MP's is roughly matched by the decrease in grammar educated MPs. Not quite sure what that means - interesting though?

It's because of the move from Labour (grammar school) to Tory (private).

Interesting because?

Hardly surprising. In fact, the Tory boys just continue to live up to their privileged stereotypes.

And now they're breaking down all that's good about our education system. With the rise of 'free schools' and academies and tuition fees and the scrapping of EMA. I can't decide whether their agenda emerges from pure evil or pure stupidity. Most probably a mixture of both.

Fivecandles - to be fair - the Tories gave us Thatcher, Major and the Haig - all state educated and from very non aristocratic backgrounds. The last two beaten by public school boy Blair.

Agree Riven.

Not saying Labour has that much to shout about although the Milbands are from good socialist stock and comprehensive education but this bunch of Tories are taking us back not by decades but by centuries.

Just look at the Bullingdon club picture

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=k-punk.abstractdynamics.org/archives/cameron-bullingdon-club.jpg&imgrefurl=k-punk.abstractdynamics.org/archives/011707.html&h=401&w=600&sz=84&tbnid=gS7SJrS281kV5M:&tbnh=90&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbullingdon%2Bclub%2Bcameron&zoom=1&q=bullingdon+club+cameron&usg=__3tskDvreM7vNJdcU-MZjWN_wdV0=&sa=X&ei=050PTbncM861hAfHqam4Dg&ved=0CB4Q9QEwAQ" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=k-punk.abstractdynamics.org/archives/cameron-bullingdon-club.jpg&imgrefurl=k-punk.abstractdynamics.org/archives/011707.html&h=401&w=600&sz=84&tbnid=gS7SJrS281kV5M:&tbnh=90&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbullingdon%2Bclub%2Bcameron&zoom=1&q=bullingdon+club+cameron&usg=__3tskDvreM7vNJdcU-MZjWN_wdV0=&sa=X&ei=050PTbncM861hAfHqam4Dg&ved=0CB4Q9QEwAQ

I get how rich people might want to vote Tory but how could ordinary working people see this picutre and think, 'Yep, this is the party who will represent my interests'

DD was shown a something on Utube prior to the election, at school. It's a clip with Jarvis Cockers 'Common People' featuring David and Gideon. I'm not good at doing links but it's worth a look, makes you feel ill and definitely true.

Haven't seen that before. Would be funny if it hadn't all come to pass.

Thanks Riven.

Mm hmm