Dd ready to move up a set. How to approach the matter?

[Akiko]

I feel my Dd is not in the right set in Maths. She joined a prep school from year 3 and was put in the bottom set in her first term. I did not question that deceission, although, she performed well enough at the 7+ exam to be considered for a bursary.
The school realised she was more able and moved her to the second set. She has always been at the top of that set with brilliant reports and I could see from her homework, that the material is very easy for her. I spoke to her Math's teacher. she is considering a move, but wants to see her test results.
I also had my Dd independently assessed, which confirmed that se has great ability in both academic subjects and was told to push towards a move to the upper band.
My consern is how and who to approach in order to achieve that. If her Maths teacher is not satisfied with test results and feels she should stay in the lower band, should I see the Head of Studies?
Sorry for the long post, hope to receive some advise, please.

I think you should leave it until after Xmas hols. Maybe the teacher will decide that the top group is the right one for your DD and you won't have to ask again.

It's very tricky asking a teacher to move a child up because, although the work may be easy in the group she is in, the top group may go at a very fast pace (for example) and the teacher might be worried that DD will not keep up.

Give it a week or two after Xmas and then approach the teacher in a questioning (and not a demanding) way asking "Have you decided if the top group is suitable for DD?".

You should not force the issue. If teacher says the top group is unsuitable I suggest you employ a weekly tutor to give DD extra help.

The decision will be made by whoever is Head of Maths in the school. Is this your daughter's teacher? If not, I suggest that you raise the subject with whoever is Head of Dept.

If one or more pupils go up a set, one or more will usually come down a set - so decision is taken by someone with an overall view, not the individual teachers.

The decisions will be made when all the tests for all the sets have been completed.

Thank you for your replies, We are starting tutoring from January anyway, to help prepare for Secondary entrance exams. It will also help her cope with the higher pace in the top set.
I wonder Camptownraces, if children do not drop from that set, does it mean, that nobody will be able to move up, even if they are more suitable for it? That worries me a lot. Dd may be stuck in the lower set forever.

The advice to wait and see what the teachers say after Christmas seems really appropriate.

Why does she need tutoring if she is already in a prep school? Don't they prepare well for secondary school? My son is at a selective secondary school and I am rather sad to see a few children who were tutored on top of good prep schools who after a year in the school are having to be tutored again. (absolutely different situation if tutored from a state school). Really sad as they probably are in the wrong place and could have been big fishes in a slightly less academic school.

There are usually set times for set moves so there is not chaos. It is always a balance of needs as for your dd to move up someone will need to move down. This needs to he evidence based obviously otherwise that Childs parents will feel rightly agrieved. We only did set moves twice a year.

I did not know it worked like that with sets.
Anyway, I know she will be OK in the next band, as her work now is too easy, we work at home at a gigher level. What I fear if she stays where she now is, that she would not be recomended for top secondary schools by the Headmaster next year.
From what some posters here have said about our school, he gives recomendations to each child, with thre or more suitable schools and if the parents do not agree, then the child is not given a favourable report.
I know they do not want the child to fail and will probably make safe choices, but why not aim higher?

Akiko - "I wonder ... if children do not drop from that set, does it mean, that nobody will be able to move up, even if they are more suitable for it? That worries me a lot. Dd may be stuck in the lower set forever"

It may well not be that rigid - not exactly the same number moving up as down, every time. It'll depend on the size of the sets, how many chairs in each classroom etc. Many schools like to keep the bottom set smaller, so each can have more individual help with particular difficulties.

Sometimes if a child moves up a set, he/she has covered less material in the lower set, therefore has a bit of catching up to do. This is not invariably the case - depends on the schemes of work (determined by the Head of Department) - and you can possibly work out whether it applies if the sets are using different text books.

I'd discuss it after the holidays but ultimately leave it up to the teacher - they know what your DD is like in class in terms of her confidence, and that is REALLY important in maths, especially if the jump between sets is big.
My DD (yr3) was moved up to top set in maths after autumn half term, which was a bit of a shock to me as I felt she was struggling with her confidence and had written to her teacher about it. Turns out I was completely wrong as she has flourished in this set, is doing Yr 5 work alongside a lot of Yr 4s and is so much more confident. If you have faith in the school, trust them to make the final decision. BTW we are state, not private so it might be different.

If you are concerned to ensure a good Headmasters report, I would tread carefully.

You might start with the teacher, ask how our child is doing and gently wonder whether she might need a greater challenge.

The last thing you want is for teachers to dig in because they feel you have challenged their judgement, or to be labelled a "pushy" parent.

I would echo what others have said. There are some very good mathematicians in London private schools. Unless your child is a natural being at the top of the second set is often a more comfortable place to be.

You should also remember that feeder schools will want to protect their long term relationship with secondary schools. If they sense that your child is receiving a lot of coaching and could flop once in a very academic secondary, they will want to protect the long term relationship and may temper their enthusiasm. The best school does not exist. The best school for your child does.

This should be identified by you and your child visiting different options, a good read of the Good Schools Guide, support her school work rather than adding an extra load, and a constructive discussion with her current school.

People do worry about whether their children will get into what are perceived as the "best" schools. Try not to let it dominate too much. Look at results. Most children in good London Day Schools do very well by any measure.

We all believe our kids should be in different sets to what the teacher puts them in. But the reality is, the teacher does, in most cases, know what's best for the kids in her class.

It might be that the top set are extremely capable, and perhaps even more so than your own child. Unless you have monitored every child yourself in that top group then you dont know. A child can be in the top set in one class and the bottom in the next, depending on the cohort that year.

A teacher has to balance out the groups in her class as well and there has to be a cut off point.

It does sound like you put a lot of pressure on your DD, and the fact that you are now also arranging for her to be tutored suggests that maybe she is not performing to the levels you expect her to be at.

Its all very well expecting progress into the best schools, but please do consider your DD in all of this, she is still a child and needs to have fun as well.

Also agree with others that nothing will be done before Christmas.

I agree with RoadArt. It depends on the ability of the other children in the various sets, rather than the individual ability of your dd. If everyone in the top set is of a higher ability then your dd should stay where she is.

By all means, go and have a conversation with the teacher, but please respect the fact that she/he knows all the children, whereas you only know your own child.

Yes, you are absolutely right about the individual ability of the rest of the children. What to me seems not quite right is that she is at the top group in English, and the only english she gets is at school as we do not speak it at home. Nearly 90% of the kids at the school are from english speaking families. How come that their children are lacking so much behind? And I know my Dd's strenghts and weaknesses. Her strenght is at Maths, not English, she most definately lacks vocabulary and sometimes grammar compared to her peers, I can see it first hand.
It may appear that I am putting pressure at her, but really, we are not doing much at home, appart from homework and some Bond once a week at which she has started the third papers. I am shure, she can manage without a tutor, it is mostly for my own piece of mind and reassurance, coming from the Continent, I am not very familiar with the exam system here. Reading posts from the 11+ website, I have found out, most children are tutored for entrance to Grammar schools. It is obvious, they need practice and sadly, cannot just rely on their IQ to get in.

But maybe everone else's strength is also in Maths.

You really need to stop getting hung up about which set she is in. Is she achieving? Is she making progress? Is she enjoying her maths?

Also, the other children may not be lagging behind in English - your dd may be above average.

It really does sound like you are putting pressure on your dd. This is not necessarily by what you are doing, but more by your attitude which will undoubtedly be being passed on to your dd.

It is really difficult to not make comparisons with other children, but you mustnt. All children are different.

By speaking two languages your DD has learnt to realise how the languages are structured adn this has obviously helped her with English. It sounds like you have also encouraged her and she is doing extremely well at school.

It doesnt, and must not matter where your DD is in the class (whether other kids are highter/lower). It causes no end of stress amongst parents,and will alienate you if you mention/discuss your concerns about which set with other parents. Parents dont like it. It also seems that you are very stressed about it.

Its the end of the year, why not have a chat with the teacher and this will give you peace of mind. Discuss your own child's ability, but dont ask where she sits amongst her peers, its none of your business and most teachers wont and shouldnt tell you. Dont ask about top sets, middle sets, the teacher will set this herself next year.

If you really want to do tutoring, why not have a look at www.whizz.com. Its an online tutoring programme that goes through the whole curriculum. You take an assessment and then it sets the level of lessons at the appropriate ability. (some it gets it slightly wrong but that doesnt matter). Its also worth setting your knowledge as slightly lower than the top so that the lessons are of a lesser ability, so that all learning is consolidated and covered before moving on to the harder stuff.

Thank you RoadArt, I will check this website.