grammar schools: St Olave's and others

[kris123]

Dear Mums,

We are thinking of sending our son to St Olave's, and heard amazing things about it.

Now, we have a tiny issue - though possibly I am overreacting. It would apply to St Olave's and to any other top quality grammar school.

I admit, that we fully participated in the parent rat race, totally overpreparing our son, who is now like a trained monkey. Yes he is naturaly fairly smart as well (level 5 in all areas), but in reality, as bad as it sounds coming from his mum, I think that he might not be good enough for a place of such academic excellence like St Olave's. He can be bit stupid at times. So yes, he will probably get in, due to our work, but he will get in due to countless hours of trainning, past papers, school, teachers etc.

So, can anyone please tell me what is St Olave's really like (or other top grammar schools)? I would hate my son to be at the bottom of the class (which he will be), being ignored by a group of adult kids, only because he does not know the third capital of Medieval France.

Many thanks for your information and help on this. Other than grammar we can send our son for instance to a good bording school (we are thining of HOCKERILL ANGLO-EUROPEAN COLLEGE), which is less adacemic, but very structured, demanding, rich in extra-curricular activities like music, languages, sports, and basically a place where our son will play his trumpet, soccer, utilise his international roots, and enjoy his years fly by.

So yes, i trained him like a monkey, but at the end of he day, I do not have to send him to play in the circus. I want him to have fun too.

Also, how much of the problem is commuting of 1 hour per day (each way). Logically i find this astronomical waste of time, but maybe I am overreacting. At the end of the day, two hours a day is like 20% of the time our kids have. Its a premiership game a day :).

Many thanks for any responses.

Kris

I presume you mean St Olaves in Orpington? I went to Newstead Wood (the girls' equivalent) where I was near the bottom all the time, despite being the top at Junior school. My advice would be to only send your child there if he will be the middle to top of the class. If not, send him to a different school where he will do well and not be zapped of any self-confidence in his abilities.

I am very interested in the utilisation of international roots.

Why don't you just send him to a normal school? I have a bright year 5 daughter, and yes I could train her up like a monkey to get into one of the Kent grammars, and she might well get in...but I'm going to send her to one of our local comps. (I did, for about two days, think about the Kent option. But for one thing I don't want a lunatic commute for her either.)

And I've got absolutely no doubt she'll do remarkably well in the school where she does go, includentally; I do have pretty high standards.

very sensible, mother inferior.

You'll get a fairly wide selection of international roots in most London schools, I am slightly thinking. (A fair number of them contributed by the Inferiority Complex.)

My astonishingly bright nephew goes to St Olaves and isn't very happy. So who knows?

why is he not happy?

I don't know.

St Olaves is a very competitive school which is 'super selective'. If your son is offered a place then he must be quite bright! However, he will be amongst academically gifted children and will be expected to keep up. extra curricular activities are obviously encouraged but I think an hour travelling to/from the school is quite a lot. Eltham College is also very good and slightly less pressured and there are several other good grammars should you sit the kent tests.

whereabouts are you?

I think it is far better for a child's confidence and well being to be at the top of the ability range in a comprehensive than struggling at the bottom of a grammar.

I went to Tonbridge Girls Grammar which is ultra selective and competitive. It was a great school....if you're the oxbridge type, but I found I was ignored for being average (average for the school that is) and in the end gave up trying as I knew I'd never get to the level of the super academic people I was at school with. I think if I was in a more nurtering environment I would have done alot better (btw don't get me wrong, I did quite well). I found it a very stressful and competitive environment and it never suited me. I went to a regular state primary where I was top/high in ability for the group and found that spurred me on to work hard. At uni, I went to an average uni where, againk, I'd say I was a brighter student and to see that I could achieve well/do better than peers made me work really hard to get a first class degree - I'd never ever experienced a drive like it at school where no matter what I did and how hard I tried I was lost in averageness. Not sure if St Olaves is similar but from what I'v heard it couldbe.

I think it depends on the boy though. He may not be the brightest there but it might push him to work harder and do better. Equally it might have the same affect as me at TOGGS. Got to go with your gut instinct/what your son feels is right for him.

Have you asked his teachers what they think he is capable of? It's one thing to train a child to pass exams, but it's how he does during normal school work that counts.

It very much depends on the child I think - if he is competitive and will "rise to the challenge" it might be ok. I went to a v.selective grammar and like angels said, it didn't suit me either. I did well but wasn't oxbridge material so the teachers weren't really interested. The whole thing was so pressured from 11 to 18 that I couldn't wait to leave and consequently didn't go to university even though my A level results were good, because I couldn't bear the thought of 3 more years of pressure. (I finally did my degree through the OU and graduated a couple of years ago! )

Both my DDs attended a top selective GS. My elder daughter was about average ability for the school and achieved a good set of gcse grades but she was constantly comparing herself to the really high flyers and this did knock her confidence. I sent her to different school for her A levels where she realised that she was a bright girl and was as clever as most people. She went onto York university. DD2 is currently at the same GS and is in the top 10% ability, however, I think the pressure the girls put themselves under is intense. Be very careful about super selective schools.

Hi just a quick pointer-if you have a child in Year 5, then you apply for a Choiristership. Basically they offer 5/6 places, your child takes academic test and if they pass that,then they are assessed by their Vocal ability. If your child doesn't get in, it doesn't stop you applying in Year 6-effectively getting two shots at getting in. Obviously though if your child is offered a place in Year 5,then the following year they attend the School for once a week Vocal Choir sessions. I did this for my nephew-he passed the academic test element but fell short in the Vocal test. Although he did get offered a place in Year 6(after tests) but we turned them down. It does look like a great school but we took a decision as a family about the unfortunate limitations in the State sector. So really i would suggest take a look at the School and not just results.
I know a few parents, who have children attending the School some are really happy other not so-the point is making sure its the right place for your child.
In truth my nephew probably wouldn't have had a good time at the School due to his creative nature. The School he now attends helps students by treating them as individuals and letting pursue their own intersts. In a highly academic environment.

If you are in SE London there is a reasonable choice of less competitive selective and very good nonselective schools. I would not let the commute alone put you off, as I think it is worth travelling to get the right fit of school for your child. It would take my dcs at least half an hour bussing/walking to get to even our nearest schools here so I think an hour door to door in London, in the rush hour, is not excessive. More than one change of service is what would put me off.

You and your son just sound great! What a refreshing question. Hope everything works out well for him. I have similar thoughts racing through my mind and your thought process took some of the pressure away and made me smile. I sense your son will do just fine! Please do let us know what you decided!

Neighbours children went to St O's. Eldest was bright but not top of the school but held his own and was v sporty, on the school teams. The second was v bright and did well too.

Most children going for the school have been well tutored. If your ds gets in he will be fine. He certainly won't be the only one tutored.