can you have piano lessons without a home piano?

[tatt]

Have just discovered that my oldest can not continue with keyboard lessons at secondary school because they don't do them. She has been told she may be able to play a little in music lessons. I'm pretty annoyed we weren't told before as we filled in a form last term. Still lets move on - they have a piano teacher. Is it likely a piano teacher would take her on when we don't have a piano at home only a keyboard? It's a good quality keyboard which is able to mimic a piano. Don't quite understand how that works but its not just having a piano voice on the keyboard, its something to do with the keys? It was bought on the advice of a previous teacher.

She is never going to be the world's greatest musician but she enjoys playing and we'll have to find someone outside school if she can't learn at school.

If you mean the keys are pressure-sensitive, tatt - ie the harder you hit the louder it plays, like an actual piano - then that will be fine as I understand it.

I teach piano to keyboard owners - but I can also teach keyboard to keyboard owners - which can be more satisfying.

Basically as long as they practise I'm not fussy. So many of my pupils have absolutely awful ancient pianos which are never tuned, I couldn't discriminate against a pupil with a lovely new keyboard.

Your keys will be weighted, so your dd can practise playing loud and soft.

I can't think that the school could be so precious as to not take her. What about just saying "she has an instrument at home to practise on".

Has she been taught keyboard (ie chords, rhythms, intros etc.) or just piano on a keyboard?

She's been taught keyboard but by a piano teacher Hence more emphasis on learning to play than on the rhythms and intros but there was some teaching on that. She was keen to practise at first but when we moved and her teacher wasn't so good she wasn't as keen to practise. She says its because she hasn't got new music but we didn't want to get new books and be told they used a different set. I'll get on to the teacher tomorrow and see what we can sort out.

So it could be that she has to do a bit of catching up on piano things - but maybe not given that she had a piano teacher. I am generally tougher on my keyboard students - making them learn both ways. My piano students just get the piano stuff.

If you do find someone outside school then make it clear what you want to learn.

I'm not musical at all - what might she need to catch up on? We're keen to encourage both the kids with their music. She has been reading music for 4 years, has never been scales to practise but otherwise mostly seems to be practising playing. Her first keyboard teacher was very strict, they were fired if they didn't practise but when we moved she got someone less good and seemed to make no progress.

Fired for not practising? - tell me about that as I am tempted to do this myself! I have a waiting list - and a couple of kids who do no work...

I just meant that if she has learnt chords, she might find she has to relearn some left hand stuff. if you tell me which books she has been using I can be more help.

The books I can find are Pianotime 1 (think that's where she started),The complete piano player songbook 3, complete keyboard player 1 and 2.

She isn't great with her left hand. That's the main difference we noticed between the teachers - second one gave her music that didn't need it so she hasn't made much progress in the last couple of terms. She has only been learning for two years and we don't feel she has any gift for it but she enjoys it.

We don't actually care what she learns as long as she's enjoying it. Problem with arranging lessons outside school is that the only teacher we know is the one where she wasn't progressing. We'd have to travel about 20 miles probably to find another one.

forgot to answer your question . Her first teacher was very good and hence could be picky She said there was no point in her wasting time on children who wouldn't practise and the child had to sign to say they would do a minimum of 10 minutes every day before she would accept them. If she thought they weren't doing it she spoke to the parents first. She is a foreceful lady and I don't think she'd had to fire anyone, one chat was enough for anyone to make the child practise

10 mins a day! My DD has to do half an hour a day but then she has a grade exam soon.

yes I should have said 10 minutes was for those starting keyboard, like mine. Year 2 was 20 minutes minimum and as she wasn't up to exam standard with that teacher we didn't find out what she considered necessary before exams .

Talked to the school music teacher at last, explained the position and he has promised to talk to a few people and get back to us. I actually said we'd be happy for her to have piano lessons if the teacher would take her.

Interesting - I usually say 10 minutes a day to beginner piano pupils, although I actually think more is preferable - the key thing is EVERY day, rather than doing a long stint at the weekends - it is much more productive to have actually sat down at the piano for a short time every day, otherwise you just forget what you've done in the lesson.

I wouldn't refuse to teach someone because they only had a keyboard to practise on, but you really can tell the difference between pupils who have a real piano and those who have a keyboard, even if the keys are weighted. The touch is never realistic and trying to get different tones (which astonishingly they can do really early on) is just impossible - I include Clavinovas in this, although I know this is controversial on here - lots of people love them - can only speak with what I've found as a teacher!

If we found she really preferred piano we'd have to move again to fit one in Wouldn't rule that out as this house was only intended as a temporary home. She would be able to practise at school, but I suspect she wouldn't actually do that as she'd miss seeing her friends.

I don't set arbitary amounts of practise - I just state it should be every day, and that the amount of work I set should come back to a high standard.

One kid was doing 10 minutes every day, just playing what he felt like and not concentrating at all, starting with hands anywhere on the keys. Now he knows he has to actually get the piece right I don't think he's doing any more time - just applying himself.

Can someone explain to the totally non-musical (me) what the difference is between learning piano and keyboard? Will she still learn chords with a piano teacher and if so what's the difference between that and how a keyboard teacher would teach? At the moment we're just concerned that she actually learns to play well with both hands. We also want to get music that will stretch her without being so impossible that she gets disheartened. What do they do for a grade exam?

I teach for a "Modern School of Music", but I work from home and am given considerable flexibility about what I teach. But if someone has rung the "Modern School of Music" they are usually after wanting to pay stuff they know.

I would check whether they want to play "contemporary" - so theme from Titanic with both hands all written out. or "modern" which is the tune and chords underneath. These are my words, and not all teachers will refer to them as this.

However I teach all the kids from standard piano books initially, most of these now teach chords to a greater or lesser extent.

If you say to a new teacher - I think her left hand is her weakest part - can you do something? That should leave them in no doubt what music to set.

If you look at the ABRSM website and log into forums you can ask questions and get lots of answers from UK based teachers, who will all know specifically about the books you have. it can get as heated as Mumsnet!

Can I say something about my experience in learning a musical instrument?
My children both played Suzuki violin when they were 3 and 4. I was in my mid 40s at the time, but I discovered that what they were learning, I was too! My wife bought me a full-size violin and I progressed up to Book 3, when I began to develop arthritis in my fingers and couldn?t close the fingerboard.
I gave up then, but always hankered after the pleasure of learning an instrument.
Cut to last year (I?m now 66) and I took the plunge and bought a keyboard (and headphones!), Suzuki piano book one and the tape which accompanies it.
I began playing in July last year and found to my astonishment that I was able to learn a new tune each month ? I?m currently learning number 15 (out of 18) and I expect to graduate to book 2 at Christmas time. I have a young friend who teaches the piano and he comes by once a month or less frequently and puts me straight if he needs to. But basically I?m teaching myself.
The method requires you listen (daily) to the tape of the music you will be learning in the future and it is a step by step, painless way of learning to play a piano or keyboard. I intend to take piano exams, but I won?t start with grade one until I?m grade two standard ? by then it should be duck soup!
I?m sending the tape and Book one to my son in Cyprus so that he can teach my 3-year-old granddaughter to play.

There are many advantages to this method:
From the very first (Twinkle) you are playing tunes
There are no scales or arpeggios, all these are integral to the music
Each tune introduces one or more new techniques
You don?t move on to a new tune until you?ve mastered the last one
You should continue to practice all the ?old tunes?, since by so doing you are practicing all the techniques you?ve learned
You build up a repertoire ? I?m well pleased that I can rattle off all these tunes
And above all, it?s fun!
A word about reading music: Suzuki students don?t generally learn to read until about book 3 or four. By then they are really proficient and it comes easily to them. So in the early days, the written music doesn?t get in the way of playing
Hope this helps.

Thanks bobbybob. Nancy1922 thank you for the comments but I don't think what works for you would work as well for a child. She can read music well but her hands have some growing to do yet so reaching keys isn't as easy as it is for an adult. The discipline of regular lessons and of encouragement from an adult other than her parents helps her. Off to find ANRSM website.

ABRSM website would be more use

Yes - read it right but typed it wrong here . Still got it right in google, found the right site and downloaded the exam guide. Just read it and all I can say is it clearly isn't written for parents! Why isn't there a simple guide for the non-musical parent wondering about grade 1????? You get to page 33 before there is anything about what an exam actually involves and then its not very useful. As far as I know she's never been given scales to practise but she can sight read and had just begun to play with the school band before we moved (if only because no other keyboard player was available ) Be a shame if we can't find someone to teach her but there are links on the website to teacher lists, which may help.

Thank goodness we won't have the same problem with our son. He's started guitar but they still teach that at secondary school.

Nancy1922 just found this interesting discussion about whether a professional teacher is necessary. Guess that also applies to teaching yourself

forums.abrsm.org/index.php?showtopic=9526

I would say however good the book or DVD is - it won't know exactly the right thing to say at the right time - a decent teacher will.

A teacher will also know when to leave a piece - they don't all have to be perfect (whatever perfect is anyway - it does have a horrible tendency to mean all the right notes at the expense of everything else). As long as the point of the piece (slurring, staccato, the loud bit at the end, a difficult rhythm) has been mastered, some other bits can be left - it's knowing which bits...

tatt - well done on reading the exam guide - brave woman that you are. it's really intended once you know you have an exam to face. If you want to see the piano pieces for Grade 1, go into a music shop - they are all in a book. That should give you some idea of how close she is.

Thanks, Tatt, an interesting debate.
One of my motives for learning the piano is so that I can accompany my grandchildren on whatever instrument they decide to take up. But I also get a huge kick out of learning a new piece.
I just sat down last night and played through my repertoire after not playing for a month (holidays, etc). I only made one or two mistakes in each piece.
I guess I won't know how good I am until I submit myself for that first grading. Only then will I know whether my way of learning is valid or not. In the meantime, I'm having a ball!

back to get the name of the website again. School arranged a trial lesson with a teacher who said she was "too advanced" for him. Turned out he was a woodwind teacher who didn't want to teach her beacuse she didn't have a piano and "I'd be asking her to do things she couldn't practise". She's a beginner not an expert!

She is being assessed by a piano teacher outside school later in the week so hopefully we may have something sorted. Really annoying that there is a keyboard teacher nearby whose lessons are full now - but would not have been if the school ahd told us earlier they were not arranging lessons for her.