Is there such a thing as a 100% bursary/scholarship?

[EvilEyeButterPie]

We're looking into school options for 3yo DD1. Pretty sure it's down to the two local state schools, for myriad reasons, but DH has suggested we at least consider some local private schools. This is a world I have never had any connection to, so I know nothing about it, but I assumed it was out of the question. DH thinks that we could apply for her to get her fees paid.

I have no idea what kind of ability she is- can you even tell at this age? People have said she is well spoken, but I doubt that actually means anything in the long run. We are pretty much as poor as we could be and both be in work.

It is pointless even looking, isn't it?

Our local private school foundation does offer 100% bursaries, but only from age 9. There's nowt below that. They are means and ability tested, and, as you can imagine, very popular. I've heard rumour from the other local parents that some people are tutoring their three and four year olds already in order to get it. Tossers.

Oh, we're definitely not thinking of any kind of hothousing! Weirdly, we could actually end up benefitting from a Tory government in this one area of our lives as we are looking for a school that tends more towards the classical end of the spectrum and I hear they are quite into that whole thing. We were going to HE but it's not really an option given the current political climate :(

DH is also of the opinion that the next best thing is a catholic state school, which I am very uneasy about. He seems to think that they have a more classical approach, whereas to me it seems like the national curriculum, just with more praying and different RE and Science. All well and good if you are into that sort of thing, but we aren't.

I just want my kids to be taught things in a logical order, and for them to get a solid grounding in history, languages, the arts and sciences. I have met people who have done this at home in half days with children of different ages, so it can't be impossible in a school, surely?

At the moment indie schools are under pressure to prove their charitable status and the charities' commission (so we were told anyway) would rather see fewer bursaries given for large amounts than more for smaller sums. Also they look favourably on bursaries being awarded to those who are not in the indie sector at the time of the grant so you would be well placed. However, most indies only grant bursaries from 11. Also unlike scholarships bursaries do not have to go to the most academic but are awarded to those who would derive the greatest benefit/make the greatest contribution to school life.
Also you need to earn very little to qualify and to have limited assets.
It is probably worth checking with your local schools to find out the exact position, and then you can prepare for the future. HTH

The Charities' Commission hasn't been wildly specific about how the charitable justification would be adequately demonstrated, and there is still a lot of to-ing and fro-ing about it; and not all private schools are charities anyhow.

The youngest I've known private schools offer bursaries is 7 (yr 3), but I dare say there will be some available younger. But that doesn't mean your local schools will - so I'd suggest you go and have a look around, and find out whether, when and what proportion of fees/other costs they may cover.

I got a bursary for my DD when she was five - she'd attended the nursery and my DH sadly passed away, leaving me unable to pay the fees. It wasn't advertised openly though, the head was kind enough to offer it when I said I had to take DD out because I could no longer afford it.

We're in the North East, if anyone knows anything. Realistically it'd be Newcastle or Gateshead, although technically we are in Sunderland.

TBH, the "free schools" idea, if it ever gets off the ground, could be what we are looking for. I am vv anti tory, obviously, but the chance for us and other parents who value the classical approach, a la the grammar school system, which tbh would have been our only chance.

Are you for real? Why is it obvious you are anti tory??? Its not like they are the Nazis. (BTW I am not a Tory, but still.)

What do you mean by classical education?

Do you mean an education using the same methods they used 50 years ago, whether or not research has shown they work? Catholic schools teach in a very similar way to other state schools, but with a lot of caholicism (including compulsory confession in some schools). Most independent schools use some modern techniques, and have been modifying their methods to catch up with the state sector in the recent past.

Private schools give you smaller class sizes, and are often selective. That is what you pay for. Unless your child is a genius why would they pay her fees at 5? And actually most would like to see her prove her ability through state school until 11 and then maybe contribute towards the fees.

I really think you need to get real, to visit your local state schools, and to see what is really going on. (Or set up your own free school, as otherwise any in your area may use methods you don't approve of, eg. Montessori?)

My son gets a 100% bursary we asked the head as I'm a sahm and my husband is a teacher in a state school. Our son got it in reception so they do exist.
No harm in asking the worse they can say is no

Always worth asking. DC's schools offer some partial and some full bursaries depending on the applicants' financial circumstances.

Unlike scholarships, which tend to be fixed, bursaries are often fluid with some years more being offered than others.

It is highly unlikely that a child would get a 100% bursary before the age of 7 and generally that is difficult to obtain to. 11+ is a much easier time to be offered 100%.

There are numerous reasons why a bursary would not be offered to a reception or nursery child:

Children's development at this stage cannot determine whether a child is truly gifted.

There are no school reports to vouch for a child's behaviour or ability at this stage.

Schools cannot afford to take such a risk of offering such a fee reduction because of this but statistically the turnover of children at prep schools is higher than average and it would be too risky to offer a fee reduction and then that child move on by Yr3 when other schools start offering bursaries.

I'm just going on what my 2 childrens prep school does...

They offer bursaries from Year 3 when children move into the Prep school from the pre prep and from other pre prep schools in the area.

AS RedSuedeShoes said, bursaries are still given to children whose parents cannot afford private schooling but the child shows indications of being 'gifted' this is obtained from the end of key stage sat exams which they take at the end of Year .

There have been parents like penelopeerben who have received help with fees through a bursary because of times of hardship such as the like of a death of a parent (a little boy in my dd's class lost his mum a year ago, she was the main breadwinner and his dad was given a bursary for him) but they are awarded purely to people who have already paid in full and enrolled their children in the school.

Something you need to think about if you choose to move out of the state system is that its not just the fees for education that are huge, My childrens uniform costs a fortune and they have so much of it! all school trips are expensive and there are loads of them! what would you do if the school chose to no longer award you with the bursary? and scholarships are, in the case of my childrens prep, withdrawn if there are any misdemenours or levels of attainment aren't up to the schools expected standards of a scholar.

I would very wary of entering into private education if I needed to have a 100% scholarship or bursary.

Are your state schools in the area dire? I live in one of the most deprived areas of the South East.... a large proportion of the state seniors around here are becoming academies and results for gcse last year were awful 40% pass rate.

Have you contacted the local private schools to ask? they would be able to help you lots more.

good luck [hsmile]

Bursaries can include provision for uniform - ours supplies one head to foot winter and summer uniform and sports kit per year (additional items can often be had from second hand sales) and pays for most trips (except ski-ing and summer sports camp as these are not essentials).

Financial assistance continues, subject to no change in parents' circumstances, until either 11+ or 13+, and is not dependent on the child's results (but can be withdrawn for poor behaviour or total lack of effort)

Not all schools have the same conditions, so you need to check. And, anecdotally, I've heard not that many people apply for assistance, so I'd say that it's worth a shot.

The other thing to add is your earnings have to be pretty low to qualify. If you have equity in your house this may be factored in. Also if you are a SAHM there can becan expectation for you to at least work part time unless you have a reason not to - younger or disabled dcs.

The amount that is seen as "low" varies from school to school. Not all schools publich their rates, so you really need to enquire individually.

Prep schools are probably not as wealthy as this school, but it is illustratice that eligible income for bursary support for one child in the school reaches up to £71k pa, and for 2, £79k of income (not related to assets or number of earners in household).

Moral of this story is: for every school with arcane and bossy restrictions, there's another one that's well-endowed and generous. You really will need to ask individually.

sorry to hijack but can i ask another question?

if you get a scholarship/bursary does that then stand until you leave the school? or is it renewed each year?
cold you find yourself in a situation where your child has to leave the school becasue it has turned out they aren't as gifted as originally thought or because you earn more money than you did or anything like that?

For a bursary, typically you will be reassessed annually on your income (taking into account variations either upwards and downwards).

For a scholarship, it is normally kept until the next natural "break point" subject to adequate effort and no persistent misbehaviour. Remember the school has, by awarding a scholarship, stated publically their belief in the talents of this child. It is very, very rare to lose a scholarship (especially at prep school level), but the "get out" is there just in case.

Catholic schools do not teach a different Science curriculum. Why would they?

I assume it is the creationist versus evolution argument.

Not in a Catholic School. There would be no problem teaching about evolution.

You are sensible to look at all the options but I agree with others that you are unlikely to get a bursary to private school until a child is older and able to demonstrate academic, sporting or musical talent.
Senior Schools are usually richer and more generous with bursaries. Some places have completely free places eg Christ's Hospital and Eton!
You also need to bear in mind the extra costs eg uniform and equipment, school trips. My son had £200 worth of trips one term and the blazer alone cost £85 if we couldn't find a second-hand one.
However, if you don't ask you don't get and people often don't realise that they can get scholarships and bursaries. A sporty child is as much prized by many senior schools as a potential Oxbridge candidate.

Catholic schools do often have an excellent reputation for academic standards and parental involvement. They follow exactly the same curriculum as every other state school apart from the fact that their RE curriculum will have a strongly Christian emphasis (less time learning about other world faiths) and they will give more curriculum time to it.
Older children aged 7 to 11 will generally also go to church for Mass (Communion service) possibly once a week.
mummytime - may I explain that there is no 'compulsory confession'! Only baptised Catholic children can receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation (as we usually call it now) and in my experience do so with their families outside of school time.

OP - from what you have said, what do you think is the big difference between the education offered in state schools and the kind in other schools? You mention the 'classical' approach and 'logical sequence' but are you sure what want isn't offered in your state schools? Catholic state schools follow the national curriculum but might present themselves as more grounded in a specific ethics but tbh if your child hasn't been baptised a Catholic and you aren't believers why consider this? While religion will be taught differently of course, the references and archetypes used in other subjects will also be Catholic ones.
If you were willing to HE and your state schools are fine, it might be a bit more realistic at this stage to go for a state school - you are clearly so interested in your dc learning particular things you can 'top up' at home and then maybe go for a bursary later when there are more available and you've a better idea of your dc's aptitudes. good luck!

Greenwing, if private schools really prize sporty people for Oxford then they are utterly deluded. The current admissions advice is not to even mention extracrricular stuff if you want to get an interview.

The only people I know who got full fees bursaries did it by deliberately not buying a house as well as keeping their incomes artifically low. Ethnic otehrness also helps. It's kinda like benefits - there is a system and you can if you like play it. Remember that schools give financial help to keep their charitable status.

I think that Greenwings comment could be read as "A sporty child is as much prized by many senior schools as a potential Oxbridge candidate would be." Ie some senior schools , especially boys schools will offer greater incentives to exceptional sportsmen than they will for strong academics.

One of the local boys schools doesn't even comment on its Oxbridge successes except very briefly, but has pages and pages dedicated to their sporting achievements.

Well, yeah, Ladymuck. 'I'd rayther win the House Cup than the Balliol Scholarship' is still a prevalent point of view in some indy backwaters. I just thought the OP should know that it wasn't widely shared by Oxbridge admissions tutors, whatever might have been the case a hundred years ago.

You seem to be very anti-independent sieglinde. What is wrong with wanting to have sporting prowess over academic and quite frankly if your goals end at Balliol then I feel sorry for your kids!

Independent schools have more knowledge of the Oxbridge admission process than most state schools and some parent's who think they know it all.