Would I feel differently about private school if I lived in London?

[LoopyLoupGarou]

I have always thought that private school is a generally bad idea, but having read the Tiffins thread, I had a thought. Is it just because I've always lived in areas with good schools? If I lived in a city where good schools were few and far between, would I think about sending my children to independent schools?

Has anyone else changed their mind when faced with the reality?

(Having said that, I don't [plan to move to London or another big city as I hate cities, so it shouldn't really be an issue for us).

You may well. I have lots of friends who do state schools rurally but private schools prior to that/after that when they live in London.

Then again, its not just London that can have some difficult schools. The catchment school of the house we're about to buy has a major problem with the kids from the local travellers camp, and the kids from the local army barracks being at constant war. Having my DC cowering in the middle is a non-starter for me.

I think you have a good point more in the sense that in some places - generally large cities, access to a good education is harder. However I don't think this is limited to London.

We live rurally and hundreds of miles from London. Education provision is very patchy and where it is good/outstanding it is very oversubscribed, with house prices rocketing upwards and sometimes doubling in price near a good school.

Some parents have no choice but to send to the local schools and outcomes are a lottery; some choose to move or go private, the latter very much costing the same in terms of house prices versus fees.

So I'm afraid it's not just a London problem in my experience.

Yes 99% of the time you will find that the people who are the most vociferously anti-private schools are the ones living in catchment areas of the kind of state schools which are basically just free private schools in another name.

There are some rubbish private schools but I dont think some people understand how variable the standard of state schools is.

Not just London but where you live in London. We started out in a cool, edgy area with lots to do for a young couple but when we got pregnant and started looking at schools we decided to move 1 mile away to a 'leafy' area. We believed Labour's 'education x3' pledge. We were naive enough to think that a middle class area would have good schools.

Shock horror! No one in our new road brimming with kiddies sent them to the local schools. I had a look around the closest primary and understood why. It was Dickensian- and not in a charming way.

You can argue that if all of us stuck up middle class parents sent their darlings to the local comp, they would be great in no time. So which one of you wants to send your kid past the police and through the metal detector first? Any takers? No, thought not.

We live in Central London our two nearest secondaries are academies. One gets 34% of kids through 5 gcse's A*-C inc English & Maths versus a National Average of 49.8% and the other manages 38%.

Would I send my kids there when I can afford to go private Not one of life's more difficult decisions I'm just lucky that I can make that choice.

I live in an affluent, leafy London suburb. Lots of parents here could afford private education but choose to send their children to the local state schools. We are fortunate enough to have two well regarded secondary schools in our area. Both offer an academic syllubus and a wide range of extra-curricular activities. I went on an open day last week and the children were extremely well-behaved and the teachers enthusiastic and involved. Not all London state schools are "gangsta high"!

Agree with WoodRose that you can't have a blanket term 'London schools'. You can't even lump them into leafy suburb schools (good) and inner city (bad). My neighbour said she couldn't even be bothered to look round our local outstanding primary because it was an "inner city state school". I tried to ask her what it was about it being inner city that differentiated it so negatively from a rural one (drugs and hoards of scary foreigners perhaps?).
There are rubbish rural schools with v low aspirations for pupils and very good ones, ditto in London. I think the reason that London has such a high percentage of people going private is that it's a magnet for both high earners and v aspirant people. Then this has a contagious effect of people going private when elsewhere they might go state. I can tell you it's not easy being the only people in our road to use the local school...

I agree Giddy - we live in 'nappy valley' south London and it's very easy to end up with no school place at all, particularly if you (as we do), live on the boundary of two boroughs. Saying that, many many people around here just go private when there are perfectly decent state schools, because they are very aspirational high fliers to whom private school is a way of life and the fees are a tiny proportion of their income.

Secondary is a different matter - the decent secondaries are few and far between and nearly always come with restrictions eg, single sex/church/assessed place/tiny catchment. I am pretty anti-private education but that will be put to the test when the DCs reach secondary age.

You might feel more tolerant of people who opt for private, but not necessarily do so yourself.

I live in London, btw, and am currently assessing the local comps for my daughters' secondary education.

I think hit the nail on the head mother

What London has made me is very intolerant of faith schools or rather, the faith school system of selection. But that's a matter for a different thread.

"If I lived in a city area where good schools were few and far between, would I think about sending my children to independent schools?"

Yes, I expect you would.

There was a thread on here just the other day: a woman who lives in Hackney, had always intended to send her DC to the (excellent) local state school, and indeed had been v judgey about private schools and/or people who moved away due to schools. However the catchment area for the excellent state school shrank, she is no longer within it, her remaining state choices are pretty awful. Therefore she is now considering private.

Most parents who send their children to private school (and pay through the nose for it) do not choose to do so because of the uniform or because they think private school is always better. They do it because they think the particular private school is a better school than the particular state schools that happen to be available to them.

Yes, minipie, you are right - except that many many of the parents who go private (maybe not near you but definitely those round me) have already prejudged the state schools and dismissed them without even looking around them. The level of affluence in certain parts of London is such that the fees are irrelevant - this is what makes the London schools (in many areas, not all admittedly) different to the rest of the country.

I agree, getting into a state school can be a bun fight but then, getting into a private school in London is much much harder, particularly for boys and especially at secondary level - nearly every private school boy I know is being tutored for the 7+/8+.

Well...no...I live in Cheshire...traditionally a good area...but our schools are awful. Our DD is in private...it was that r send her to a place which seemed more like a Borstal than a place of learning.

HOw old are your DCs?

staranise

really? even people who are in the H or B catchments? if so then they are a little bit mental clearly very well off indeed.

They are very well off indeed. I think it's a bit of an arms race re. tutoring but believe me, I barely spend five mins with a private sschool parent these days without it turning into a discussion re. anxiety about which school their child will go to, because of 7+/11+ pressure.

Though like I said, I think our area may be not be representative of London in general, never mind the rest of the country.

I know many London parents who were adamant their children would be state educated then changed their minds when they saw what was on offer at secondary school. Call it the Diane Abbott syndrome.

Agree with Staranise though that there are some parents who just don't even countenance idea of state. One friend of mine is catholic and lives opposite a sell-your-kidney catholic primary and she still drives to a private school because 'everyone knows that in this country you have to' (her quote). And the neighbours who didn't look round the outstanding school you can see from our houses because it's 'inner city state'. I think it's bonkers, but some people honestly believe that if you can afford private then it's your moral obligation to your children to do so, even if (as around here) many of the private schools have no outside space.
I'm one of those hypocrites that may well go private for secondary though... Call me Diane.

I have to agree with Giddy on some of the problems with state schools. The two academies I mention above both have swanky new buildings with but very little outside space, no playing fields and at least one has a heavy police presence outside at kicking out time (by outside I mean standing next to the exit door, on the crossing outside the school and more on the other side of the road). I don't go past the other one at closing time but I wouldn't be surprised if it is the same. It doesn't inspire confidence.

I looked at our local primary before choosing private. The head who has recently been appointed was very non competitive, you didnt clap the runners in a school race you also clapped the spectators... The class size was huge and she had a real chip on her shoulder about the 11+ (which we have in Bucks).

So, I went private and have not regretted it for a minute......

We left London when our youngest was born partly because of housing costs but also because we did not want our kids state educated in London and could not afford private for more than one.

Can someone point me in the direction of the Tiffins thread please?
Having read this thread, I'm thinking that it sounds like our local grammar (HB?)due to the numbers of places/applicants and I need to read up a bit more.

Tiffin Talk thread in Secondary Education

I assume that it's the one they meant. But there are probably loads if you do a search.

You could also try the 11 plus forum if you feel very brave.

I suspect you probably would feel differently if you lived in London. Tiffin is a fab school if your sons are mathematical/science orientated - not so if they are more artistic linguistic IMO. Can't speak for Tiffin Girls.