Being the poorest kid in the private school..?

[Watersign76]

I really want DS to go to private school, his name is down for a couple so assuming he can pass the "interview" at one, we should be able to get a place.

But the fees, the additional wrap-around childcare (we both work almost full time) and the other stuff (fancy uniform, ski trips etc) will all add up. Plus there is the vague plan for a DC 2 at some point.

Has anyone who can literally "just" afford it, sent their child anyway? Is it worth it?

I was the child, in that I went to a private school back in the days of assisted places. I was lucky I suppose that there were quite a lot of us with APs, so we had out own clique of sorts. But being able to go to the school, but not being able to afford the extras, is a bit miserable. Both because a ski trip sounded like fun (I still have never been skiing!), and of course I didn't have the clothes and everything else that the rich kids had, and there was some teasing. Mostly we got around that by not really having anything to do with the rich kids. Once we got into second year and were streamed, that was really easy!

On the other hand, the class sizes were much smaller, the teachers were much happier (or indeed, just present, as opposed to the lecturers in the local community college who apparently weren't always). I did get a good education, did go to Cambridge and have had all those advantages that follow. Who knows what would have happened if I'd had to muddle through at the rather crap local comp?

I think on balance that if the education is genuinely better, then I would send, even if I could only just afford it. But it would really depend on the private option being a lot better than the local state offering. HTH

My DC attend a private school. (DH and I didn't.) There are a hell of a lot of children whose parents are in a situation like yours. Either the GP's are paying, they're there on a bursary, or the parents are scrimping and saving to do it. This doesn't seem to be an issue to any of the children from what I can tell.
I think it depends on the school you choose, tbh. The demographic of different schools obviously varies massively. Its fairly easy to get an idea from the fees, the cars parked at pick up time, how friendly the pta reps are at open day, etc..

Some of the rich kids in my childrens' schools have quite complicated lives. I don't think they are envied.

It might be tough if you had the sort of child who feels they need the latest Jack Wills hoodie. But the straightforward academic, musical or sporty kids, or indeed the straightforward nice kids, tend to find each other and generally income does not come into it.

There is a real trend, if you are very rich, of allowing your child to take a friend on holiday with them. If your child is lucky enough to be invited, just enjoy.

My DC goes to private school and we are possibly one of the poorest families. DC has noticed some kids have a huge house....but we are definately not the only ones.

In our school (very small prep) there are around 10 to 15 per class and I would guess that a little under half of the kids in DCs class alone live in an ordinary house....my DC is one of the only kids who arrives with a parent and not with a nanny...at home time I am one of the few who are there to collect...all the other poor Mum's are at work to earn the fees...

.without the fees we would have a more comfortable life...but to me the worry of my DC attending our failing local school far outweighs any worry about not being the rich kid.

I know primary may be different to secondary...but at our best private seccondary's there are tons of kids on scolarships...there is also a lot of help available at good schools. Don't be put off a good education by fear.

I agree about the demographic...we live in a fairly well off area but there are other more expensive private schools here...I think the loaded folks choose those!

Uniform gets expensive, but there is nearly always a second-hand shop and no stigma at all about using it. Yes, there will be lots of expensive foreign trips on offer (but that is increasingly the case at state secondary schools as well, depending on the catchment area), but no one expects everyone to take them up. Sometimes schools offer financial help for trips which are particularly relevant to the curriculum for GCSE or A-level.

I was the (relatively) poor girl at school up till O-level - my mum taught there and I had a scholarship, so we paid hardly any fees, but there were girls there who lived in stately homes and did all their shopping at Harrods. I did occasionally feel left out because I didn't have Benetton jumpers in every colour in the range, but then discovered it was much cooler to dress in black or from Oxfam anyway .

Then I moved schools to another private school where my family was more in the normal range, but loads of my friends were on assisted places and came from distinctly un-affluent backgrounds. Didn't matter at all. If your DC is bright and reasonably confident, and you don't make relative lack of wealth a big issue at home, then unless there are some very unpleasant kids who make it a problem, it shouldn't be.

I think it depends on the kids who are there. I went to two schools on assisted places and scholarships - at the first, money wasn't a status issue. At the 2nd there were some seriously loaded kids and a lot of peer pressure, and it did bother me.
However, if you're managing to pay the full fees, your child probably won't be the poorest there.

What are you hoping to gain from it?

Is all the sacrifice worth it to you, and will you be happy in a couple of years time, when you've committed to the long haul? Will it stop you having that 2nd child because it wouldn't be fair to send one only? Will your family life be better or worse overall as a result? Will you be working too many hours to pay the fees, and be tired and grumpy for the next 15 years?

We'd probably just be able to do it, but are thinking hard about the effect of the fees on family life, and we've already chosen not to go at 4+ because of the extra years of fees, complex school+work run, etc. We're wondering if it might be better to have more support from home and use the competent local comp.

I am guessing that you are considering a place for a reception or nursery child. The thing that you need to bear in mind is that fees do increase a great deal as children progress through the school system. Personally, I think that if you cannot afford to send two children to an independent school, then you should not do it.

Send your dc to the local primary school, have your dc2, and try your best to save for secondary school, or possibly for 7+ entrance. This is from someone that is using a local primary school, but actively considering an indie for secondary level.

In terms of things like Ski trips more kids don't go than do. I think there were c60 kids who could have gone in my son's school but in fact only about 20 did. People buy second hand uniform (in DS's school the funds go to the Parent's Association who then buy stuff for the school) and buy school trousers from Marks rather than the official supplier as they look the same anyway. Some of the parents are millionaires some are not I can't tell the difference.
This is an academic prep in London (but more of a working parents school than a celeb one IYSWIM).

I think you should sit down an take a cold hard look at the financial implications my son's fees are £12K pa and I have a second child starting next year (fees for reception are a bit lower but you are still looking at north of £20K pa for the two) and this will only go up. I have a six figure salary, DH is in the process of starting his own business so hopefully he will be contributing more over the next few years.

If this is too much for you can you look at some of the other options suggested above such as 7+ or even 8+ entry to give you a couple of years to save or wait until secondary and spend your money on music, arts, sports etc and tutoring for the Common Entrance; whilst saving for Senior School fees which can be eyewatering.

It will depend on the school and the area. As other posters have said if you are sending to pre-prep and then moving to prep the fees can go up an awful lot and it is quite a shock.

In answer to your question 'is it worth it', I'm afraid this is difficult to answer because again in depends upon the standard of state schools you have around you, the standard of the prep schools, your circumstances. If I'm honest, if you have good state schools around you and the fees are a struggle, the pre-prep bit is easy to miss out. You can then put them in at 7.

My dd1 has just started at a nice private school due to the fact her father teaches there. Our fees are very reduced and GPs also help out. We are more then likely one of the poorest families there. At the moment, dd does not notice but she is only in year 3. I imagine it will become more obvious when she hits senior school and the children are affected more by materalistic things. Would I say it is worth it? My dh definitely thinks so and yes I do have complete confidence in the school to deliver a decent education, but it is early days and have not started shopping at lidl yet!

I think a lot of people's preconceived ideas about independently educated children and their families are wrong, and I speak as a very working class girl who is married to a high earning DP and we have a DS at a lovely small local prep school.

SOME people there are frightful snobs - but in society in general some people are simply awful, it's no different at fee-paying schools, there are good and bad everywhere.

Some kids will pick on your DC if they perceive he/she is in any way different to them, just like I witness every day at the state school I work in.

So your DC can't go on the ski trip, or you cant buy the latest £000 clothes for them. Big deal. Do you actually want your DC to grow up with such a materialistic view of life?

Shitty kids are shitty kids no matter where they go to school.

There are lot's of decent kids in the indie sector with decent parents teaching them decent values. They really are not all "hooray Henries".

ds1 went to a small independent on a bursary and won a scholarship in Y9 and another for the 6th form for getting top grades

we hadn't intended on sending ds3 there (ds2 at special school) simply because we couldn't afford it but MIL was so impressed with everything it has done for ds1 that they are funding 66% of ds3 place

it is predominantly the small classes that appealed. The local grammars and comps have 120 in each year, I envisaged ds1 getting through to the upper 6th with half the teachers still not knowing his name, the only names they would remember were probably going to be the bright sparks or the trouble makers. I didn't want him to be anonymous

At his school all the teachers know all the names of everyone in the school whether or not they teach them. He hasn't gone on any of the trips abroad except one in Y9 when the teacher took me aside and said it would be really good for him and that we could pay in instalments.

He quite proudly boasts that we only have one house and one car and never holiday abroad. he sees the kids that have everything handed to them on a plate rather sad.

I know he wouldn't have got the gcse grades he got had he been in the anonymous state school because he prefers to live in the shadows and teachers are no doubt happy to keep him there as he causes no trouble.

As someone who went to a private school I really don't see it being a problem at all, plenty of children were on bursarys or not from very wealthy background (but there parents could just afford the fees) and they "fitted" in just like the children from more wealthy familys.

exexpat - I think I am you!! I was on a scholarship to a very posh school and only yesterday I was contemplating my lack of beneton and my continuing penchant for black and vintage!

My own children are now going private but I've deliberately chosen one where the demographic is quite mixed.

Apparantly universities discriminate against private school entrants these days - not sure if that is true but might be worth thinking about.

Aha, schmee - also early 80s vintage (secondary)?

Mine also now going private but I find that the demographic is not as mixed as it was when I was at the day school for 6th form - more ethnically mixed, but more uniformly middle class because there aren't all the assisted places these day. Yes, there are the school's own bursaries, but only a handful compared to the heyday of the assisted places scheme.

I've heard that lots of parents in some areas with good sixth form colleges (eg Cambridge with Hills Road) move children after GCSE in the hope that they won't be seen as over-privileged independent school kids - but I'm not sure how that goes down with universities like Bristol, which I think does some positive discrimination for state school candidates. Surely they can see where their GCSEs were taken?

You would have to be truly on the breadline to be the poorest. There are children at all 3 of my kids' schools who are living very modestly. Example- Dad drives a taxi and mum is a nurse or immigrant parents with very little English. Uniform is a great leveller (everyone buys second hand because they grow so quickly) and the biggest snobs you'll probably run into are just defensive because your kid got in on scholarship and is cleverer than theirs.

Wow, thanks for all the feedback.

Leaving until 7 sounds good, but we have probably left it too late.

Everything around here (Essex) seems to have a
giant waiting list. I am attracted to the school where we have a place
as it is 4 - 18, so assuming DS passes exams
he'll be allowed (!) to continue.

We are going to have a long talk. Don't think GP's are
an opp unless they release equity. Rich uncle might be!

Thanks again.

Both my sons go to what would be considered eltist schools. We are comfortably off, we didnt have our children until late in life and we both work. There is a thriving 2nd hand shop, after you see what the boys do to their clothes you wont dream of buying new!

Skiing trips and other people's houses always come up. Agree that most kids dont go on the skiing trips so it wont be noticed and there are a wide range of houses. You will be fine, dont worry about it.

In the most expensive schools there are lots of children on bursaries, I never know who they are and tbh good for them....It also makes sure that our most expensive schools have a more balanced intake (as much as it can be in a private school).

I have experienced 4 private schools through my children's varied education history, and frankly, there are loads of normal parents who save and sacrifice to see their children through the private education route. Yes, some of the families seems to have no financial problems whatsoever and the children live in big houses, have stylish new clothes and go on long haul holidays etc. But most of them are children of parents who simply think this route is the one that suits their children best and their lifestyles are much more modest. Many private school parents are product of the state system themselves.
So, 'fitting in' is not a problem, I believe. BUT if you genuinely are putting yourselves under huge financial pressure to keep earnings up just to cover the fees, the stress could be enormous, and I would recommend thinking of delayed entry, and certainly think of a good state alternative.

My DS has recently started at indie with the help of a bursary. Although it is still early days, there has not been any problems so far regarding the fact that we are probably one of the poorest families there. I had all the same concerns as yourself this time last year and spent hours on MN absorbing all the fantastic advise that I received. Paying the fees is changing our lifestyle but interestingly we feel it has been a good thing in a way, we no longer fritter our hard earned cash and have much better control of our finances. Treats are really appreciated now!

I was one of the poorer kids. It didnt matter too much in school, but I was aware of the financial stress my parents were under (only a tiny part was caused by my school fees, I later found out) and that did stress me out. I think it was worth it overall though.

We have 3 dc in private schools and are under enormous financial strain. Local comp is great - but, private school has provided one to one care nad helped each one overcome some quite significant difficulties.

Indie sector is not all indulged while comps are tough and rough. Our local comps havew far better resources, but they are so competitive that kids with difficulties or those in the middle can get ignored.

Chose private because visiting local comp for ds (with asd) we were told that if he was in the top set there would be LESS bullying and then asked if we could spot the asd child in that class - by standing in front of the class and picking her out dirng teaching!!!!

Refused to subject ds to that sort of indiginty - best alternative was private!! have not regretted it at all - depite the penury! - finad that most parents find it tough - thoe at state schools seem to have far more foreign holidays and new clothes!!

Some indies are full of bling, media parents etc, but our experience of a very ancient, highly academic London day school is that even tho' probably many of the parents are very rich, have second, third homes etc, many have very modest homes, camping holidays etc. The boys seem oblivious to it, and the parents are not ostentatious.
They have to wear unfiorm, so no opportunity for desinger brands etc, and uniform, is nowhere near the £800 quoted on another thread for a grammar schol uniform. There are regular second-hand unifrom salses, attened by rich and poor alike for blazers, sports kit etc, and the shirts and trousers can be bought in Asda ( as my soon's are!)
As a previous poster said, not all children can go on tehe ski etc trips anyway so is not obvious if they can't go due to money. For the French trip, mu son had to queue all lunchtime to be sure of a place as there were not enoguh places for all those who wanted to go, so no-one would know or care if he just hadn't applied.
(I would be loath to send a child to a uniform free school (indie or state) anyway because of the tyranny of brands...)

Excellent points Mrs Ghoul,if you are at a traditional school with plenty of repeat buyers ,then all should be well,if you are at the type of flash school that appeals to first time buyers then it could be a problem.
Forget ski trips,plenty of people dont go on them.