An unstoried and memoryless generation??

[LaRochelle]

There was an interesting article in the Telegraph today about Generation Y's attitude to Christiantity.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/8042110/Young-people-have-faded-memory-of-Christianity-says-Church-book.html

One phrase really stuck out for me "Generation Y are a largely unstoried and memoryless generation?.

I would love to know if this applies, not just to Christianity, but to the wider Western canon of stories and song - nursery rhymes, fairy tales, etc.

I know I have read many articles about children arriving at school without knowing nursery rhymes and the detrimental impact that has on their speech development.

Also my whole schooling saw daily singing and daily stories read aloud but that doesn't seem to happen at my children's school. I think that if they didn't hear fairy tales at home they would not have heard many at school by now.

What do people think? Does it matter?

I think it's incredibly sad. I've sung nursery rhymes to my kids but I'm always sad that they don't know any hymns or bible stories.
(I'm not a chrisian btw, just think it's a rich cultural basis for children)
I'm going to make sure I teach them some proper Chrismas Carols and take them to Church.

I think that as so much of our great art, music and literature owes so much to Christianity it IS a shame that there is a lack of understanding of the Christian tradition. Knowledge aquired as an adult doesn't seem to stick so much iyswim.

But then I am pleased that more time is taken to tell children about other religions, so what is lost in one sense is gained in another

Singing games in school playgrounds don't seem to be as common, they are often taught to children now whereas we just seems to soak them up from the ether.

Singing hymns was a big part of my school life and my first experience of metaphor. I remember thinking about what the words meant. I remember a lot of them to this day.

"When I needed a neighbour, were you there etc" - anyone else remember laughing at the naked bit?

I've brought my dc up in a secular home. Dh is very secular, and I operated a "let them choose when they;re older" policy. I must admit, I thought school would teach about religion, albeit in a secular, and multi-faith way.

I've been a bit surprised how much that hasn't happened. Partly, I suppose, it's the limitations of the curriculum - not much has been taught to them in any great depth.

But religion is such a big part of culture, it is a bit of a gaping hole. That gap is a kind of cultural illiteracy. If I'd known, I would have made bigger efforts to plug it myself.

So I'm waiting to see what happens with secondary school. I don't think secularism should = cultural illiteracy.

I totally agree Humphrey, especially the metaphor thing.
Just dicussed this with DP and he said he couldn't see any value in it at all... :(

I was cold I was naked were you there etc...

"I would love to know if this applies, not just to Christianity, but to the wider Western canon of stories and song - nursery rhymes, fairy tales, etc."

I think that it also applies to The Story of Our Nation [Arthur Mee emoticon]. Schools these days seem to cover a small number of historical periods in isolation (but repeatedly). The children can tell you about Egyptians, Vikings, Tudors and WWII but seem to have missed out on the rest of history. When I was at school we learnt it as a narrative starting at 1066 and going through to modern history (the Corn Laws ).

I suppose it is a by-product of teaching things in modules, instead of as a part of the all-encompassing whole.

I suppose this sort of thing happens more because of books taking more of a backseat position to screen-based activities. Is that what the article says? Haven't read it yet.

On a more personal level I frequently tell my DCs stories about their grandparents, who have now passed on. It gives me so much pleasure to know that they know something about who and where they came from.

As I see it it's up to us. We should provide a environment rich in books and model our own learning to our children.

Turn of the TV, turn on some background music and all read together on a Sunday morning :).

Those that had the best general knowledge, enquiring minds and curiosity about the world when I was at school were those whose parents did these things with them.

Interesting thoughts.

As it happens, although we are very agnostic ourselves we do take our children to church as we believe it is a part of their cultural heritage. My parents did the same for me and I am grateful to them.

We also make a big effort to read a lot of fairy tales and poetry.

Which is all very well for my children, but what about for those kids whose parents do not do that?

I would like more of it to be happening in school as well. The timetable seems so crowded that things I think are really important, like a daily story, get crowded out. Some of my best school memories are of the whole class being gripped by the teacher reading The BFG, for example.

Where I went to school we were taught no history whatsoever (not in this country). I do notice the gap that causes in my knowledge and understanding though I have made efforts to plug those areas myself.

All the children I know have had plenty of exposure to fairy tales and nursery rhymes in preschool and reception (quite apart from anything the parents do).

as a non-believer I have often pondered whether my kids are missing out on the cultural aspects of religion. Christmas is the biggest thing for me - it's so different to the DDs - I try to substitute religion with something touchy-feely about family and giving and appreciating our really rather lucky lot. but it's not the same as putting on a smart new outfit and going to a(cold and drafty) church. enjoying hymns but fidgeting through a sermon itching to get home to see Grandma and devour turkey. I think it's the lack of community - my little rituals are just that - they're not something we share with the wider community. I'd love to have a secular village Christmas "service" on Christmas morning, a bit of a sing, a bit of contemplation, a bit of mulled winne - for everyone - old and young, friends and not. but if I suggested it people would think I was trying to start a cult . and no-one would come.

Passing down memories, stories, songs and rhymes is crucial to fostering a sense of identity and self worth, I agree.

I don't think the waning of interest in Christianity has to have anything to do with it, though. Much more connected to the rise of the PlayStation .

LaRocehelle - I have similar BFG-related memories!

hatwoman - I would come to your non-religious Christmas service!

So many children's books, TV and video games etc don't actually refer to any culture or history - British or Christian. They are self-contained and often basic language and simple 'accessible' themes. They don't have any reference to what happened in history, or retelling of an old fable etc.

I teach struggling KS3 pupils and I'm wondering if reading/hearing poetry is missing earlier on. Sounds weird, but it is all about hearing ideas expressed in unusual vocabulary, juxtaposing ideas, making connections. Hearing the music of rhymes etc. Just a thought.

But just saw Scooby Doo set in Italy - and have to say I was faintly impressed . covered Pompeii and Vesuvius and gladiators.

Inkyfingers, that is what I wonder about, the "accessibility". I read an article once about how school reading material had simplified with each generation. Wish I could remember where but it was real food for thought.

I have a "daily poems for kids" book. For mine to have a hope of understanding the poem in it today I first had to describe WWII blackout, Lancaster bombers and Hamburg. That surely all adds up, over a few years, into more exposure to literature/language/place in history, etc?

I think that the self-containment and the resulting lack of reference and retelling is, unfortunately, deliberate.
How much money does a film-maker get if he produces a film about a generic subject like Lancaster bombers? Nothing compared to what can be made if the 'character' areoplane is copyrighted and marketed. And if the world that the character inhabits is self-contained and self-referring then the effect is even greater: it is more defined and therefore easier to copyright, so that you 'own' that niche.
Once you have established this unique character and its world, then the spinoffs are endless. Don't you get the feeling sometimes. when you are supposed to be enjoying a film, of "ah, I can see the playstation game already".

I think it is part of dumbing down. Much of our cultural heritage has been removed. I think it is likely to change now. The Tories havce asked Simion Schama to look at developing a curriculum to teach British history. I hope it will not stop at British history, but will cover our entire cultural heritage. At the higher age range, I hope that the trend to remove DWEM (dead white European male) literature and thought, will be reversed. I think the whole thing is essentially political, and it looks like the times are now changing.

I'm very anxious that my DD (who is 5), who goes to school in France and will in all probability spend all her childhood here, be exposed to English culture. I currently overload her with DVDs of TV adaptations of Jane Austen, Charles Dickens, Mrs Gaskell, Frances Hodgson Burnett, Brontë sisters etc etc, ensure she has all the English children's classics in her library and buy her books about history to develop a concept of a timeline.

Fortunately she loves England and feels English. She'll happily listen to CDs of English nursery rhymes (sung much more beautifully than I can!) and follow the words in a book at the same time.

I live abroad and this is something I am really conscious about as I bring up my kids. We read loads in English, and as we go through the year I try to link in the British traditions to put them on a par with the local ones, because my kids are so rooted in this tradition that the British side of their background are, despite my best efforts, rather alien/exotic to them. I'm even trying to teach them the clapping games we played in the playground (any www links, anyone - I was never very good at them) and the "Snow, Rain, Thunder, Lightning" handstand game

I, too am an atheist but also at Christmas and Easter read my kids Bible stories, sing carols, etc. so that they get the basics. We live in a very Catholic country and they went to a Catholic preschool but despite that, one Easter when I asked them what their teacher - a nun - had told them about the Easter story, they said "She says the Easter bunny will come and hide chocolate eggs on the lawn."

Also among the songs and rhymes I try to teach them are the less specifically "Christian" hymns I remember from school like "One more step along the world I go", "Autumn days when the grass is jewelled" - anyone remember that?. Had forgotten "When I needed a neighbour" - thanks, will bring into the repertoire.

But then there is another aspect that I also have to address - with this being a Catholic country, RE/RS at school is basically catechism and preparing for 1st Communion. There is no interfaith/other faith stuff at all, and this is also something I desparately try to rectify. Luckily our city has a slowly reviving Jewish quarter so we go to Jewish-themed workshops occasionally, but non white-Caucasian faces on the streets/in books are practically non-existent, as are styles of dress other than typically western.

Well, off to buy my pumpkin and fireworks (told them the story of Guy Fawkes' Night for the first time this year . And tried to reconcile it with the ethical implications of burning an effigy of a human at a stake!!! [tying myself up in knots emoticon])

Interesting.

I spent a long time teaching English idiom to non-Brits and you do end up falling over yourself to put a phrase into its religious context to a classful of Japanese or whoever, who haven't been brought up with any of the imagery that we take for granted.
As a result of that training, poor ds gets a half hour lecture any time he asks me what a word means.

Are there any books out there about Christian stories and imagery but with no explicitly pro-Christian slant? (I suspect 'The Bible' is a good answer!)

"And tried to reconcile it with the ethical implications of burning an effigy of a human at a stake!!!"

Guy Fawkes was not himself burnt, it is only his likeness that is burned. It is an assimilation of the old Samhain tradition. link

Unprune, I know what you mean in a way about Christian stories without the "faith" bit. I would love it if our local synagogue and mosque had public events I could take my children to so we could all find out more. I wouldn't take them to a service but would happily take them to a Chanukah storytelling session, for example.

Agree.

I am an atheist with a vague nostalgic longin for Christianity. But I was brought up in the Christian tradition and learned bible stories and hymns. Ditto Greek and Roman mythology - so much of western are and literature is grounded in a understanding on Greek and Roman myth. Ditto the old rural traditions and superstitions that older generations were brought up with. We are all poorer.

I don;t know about this, it really sounds like more buckethead Christians whining that their particular fairy stories are being sidelined. Much of Cbeebies is about stories, with many of the programmes featuring the characters being read or told a story, and one series, Tellytales, is re-enactings of what seem to be favourite legends and stories from around the world.
Also, the reading books DS brings home from school often include various traditional tales (and Lauren Child, for instance, does some lovely re-imaginings of them) along with the (admittedly fucking awful) Oxford Reading Tree shite.

senua How interesting and it makes sense. In Spain that have huge Fiesta where the burn effiges of policitians. I love the history of all the traditions. I also don't blend traditions as they might get watered down and lose meaning for my DS as I am very mixed. (I known Humans always have)
I love telling DS bible stories even though I am not Christian as I think it helps him make sense of the English and Western phrases. Oh! and world history. I struggle with the Koran as my Dad didn't explain anything to me, or arabic. I also decided not to continue going to the mosque as a kid. But I know Spainish history through Mum.

Orm - I have bought a few in a series of retellings of the Greek myths aimed at I guess 7/8 yr olds - I'd buy the same about Christian stories, and other current religions too. I wouldn't think twice but for the fact that I don't believe any of them so I don't want them presented as truth.
I think losing the references in eg literary culture would be a shame. I still discover them now (I'm not particularly well-educated in the Bible). It all adds to the enjoyment.

Read this in Guardian today, which seems relevant - it's about Gove's ideas for literature in schools. Just where I'm coming from! 'Don't apologise for literature - or defend feeding children rubbish' In the end it's fantastically patronising to deny them.

Also to add fuel to my fire, heard of a student teacher told off for reading story to primary pupils for 20 minutes because 'they're not learning anything' (ie no learning objectives in 'The Borrowers') - no possibly not!!!