Should teachers get Performance Related Pay?

[LucindaCarlisle]

Should they get pay taken off them if they fail to support children with special Educational Needs?

Teachers do get Performance related pay. If we don't meet our Performance management targets, we may not be recommended for a rise.

But no, they shouldn't get pay taken away for SEN issues. That is a whole-school issue, not dependent entirely on individual teachers.

The Head Teacher should get pay deducted if the school fails to give effective support to sEN children, in that case.

I think it would have a detrimental affect on SEN teaching, in that schools would actively avoid SEN pupil provision so that they would not be measured on it.

You can't be measured on what you do not cater for.

I'm sensing something else here. If you have an issue with your school you need to take it up with them and not tar all teachers with the same brush.

Apologies in advance if I've got the wrong end of the stick.

I don't think it's practical to do so, no. SEN is an issue which needs to be addressed as a whole school, and must come down to training, rather than penalties. SN children move through school, like any other students, and new student arrive who may have SNs not experienced before by particular teachers. It is up to the school to ensure that training is provided, and to ensure that students' needs are met. Making it a pay issues is unhelpful.

Also, OP, if your opinion is that pay should be related to SEN issues, then do you also think that pay should depend on how a teacher deals with a G&T student, for example, or an EAL student? What about students on FSM? Where would you draw the line?

new students - sorry.

As mentioned, they already get performance related pay. If you linked it to SEN then there would be a push to segregating SEN kids to 'SEN teachers' and a move back to 'special schools' for those who can be main stream educated, which wouldn't be helpful to anyone.
P.S. I think special schools are fab for those students they are appropriate for and do a fantastic job!

I think perhaps there should be increments for teachers who undertake professional development related to SEN such as a masters degree. SEN teachers with extra qualifications get extra pay, but there isn't really much incentive for class teachers to do so.

I would like to know of a universal measure which would deem support effective- children with SEN are so diverse (what with being individuals and all) I think it would be impossible to measure a teachers' 'performance' against a standardised set of criteria.

At secondary level, which teacher would be held ultimately accountable?

Agree that you should tell us what's upset you.

Why just teachers? Why not parents, Ed Psychs, LEAs? All these people and more are involved in supporting these children, and all are more than capable of failing in their duties.

The Civil Service.

Factory workers on Piece work.

The Armed Forces.

We do get perfomance related pay, we don't take pay away as such.

Although if a teacher on UPS is not meeting their threshold targets they risk losing an awful lot.

Teachers do get performance related pay. Check your facts out before starting a thread. Zero marks for research!

I am on the fence about PRP for Heads in particular and this should be heavily measured and not just on results. There are two secondary schools near us. One head will not take any child with special needs such as dyslexia, the school therefore next door takes all the children with SEN. Therefore School A has better exam results and less behavioural problems. PRP if on results would go in her favour. To me that would be detrimental and would encourage heads to select children.

PRP normally means pay rises based on performance and therefore teachers already get this but maybe bonuses could be introduced for really good teachers.

Yeah, performance related pay = the performance of the union which performs best in finding loopholes in the paperwork.

Experience has turned me into a complete cynic.

I don't think so, just because a child with SEN does not do well in school there could be any number of reasons for this.

But if no teacher has actually referred a child to the SENCO, so that when the LEA statementing unit writes to SENCO for a report, the SENCO has to say that she has never seen the child. Many mainstream schools ignore many SEN children.

Teachers, as has already been pointed out, do get PRP.

Parents are able to refer their own child to the SENCo if they believe their child has additional needs.

I would take issue with your claim that 'many mainstream schools ignore many SEN children'...really? You have actual evidence of this as opposed to many mainstream schools have insufficient resources/training to adequately and appropriately support children with SEN.

I have a Y4 class in a mainstream school. They range from being completely unable to read and write to performing maths at the level expected of a pupil in Y7/8. For an hour a day I have an additional adult to support me/the children. I have asked and asked and asked for specific interventions, referrals and assessments but I can't get what the LA don't offer.

Please don't beat up the teachers. If you believe your child's needs are not being met in a mainstream setting then you need to make waves in your child's school. Put your requests/concerns in writing to the SENCo, Head and Governor with responsibility for SEN. Copy these to the Director of Children's Services, use the expertise of organisations such as IPSEA. But please, don't jump to the conclusion that because a single, mainstream teacher (who may well have received little or no training in specific SEN issues) has upset you, we are all like that or that our pay isn't already linked to the performance of the children we teach .

Afaik no teacher has ever referred either of my children to the SENCO: I ring up the SENCO when I think it's appropriate.

We used to have serious problems with dcs' junior school and SN, but tbh I don't think performance related pay would be an answer, since presumably this would be judged by school management- and they, not the teachers, were the ones being recalcitrant.

But I would never let it go as far as relying on the SENCO (or anyone else) for a report without actually having taken the trouble to contact SENCO myself as a parent: in fact, I never let more than a few weeks of a term with a new teacher go by before I am in briefing the teacher.