Secondary school options in SW London... losing sleep!

[Tisane]

Hi all, have namechanged in an attempt to feel better about putting so much identifying info on the net - couldn't resist as tying myself in knots over this whole thing and you all seem so knowlegable.

DS is 9, year 5 of good (for the area), state primary. He is academically very capable. We are looking to start kumon as he is especially good at maths and school is not stretching him as yet (could be a new year issue as he has always been put in additional/accelerated maths before).

We live in Clapham, SW4. Near Clapham North/Wandsworth Road. The 'plan' was to move before DS hit secondary school age or to pay for ind/private school but for various reasons moving will be completely impossible and finding full school fees may well be too. Certainly the option of sending DS to a 'not very competitive' fee-paying school feels like something we cannot afford.

The Good Schools Guide catchment area tool is depressing; only state schools nearby which seem halfway decent are Graveny and Dunraven, both of which are quite far away. A far closer (and therefore more likely?) prospect is Lambeth Academy which doesn't fill me with joy.

We are dithering between throwing everything we can at tutoring DS with a view to trying for a grammar school or ind/private school (the only two I can think of nearby are Emmanuel and Dulwich College), and doing what we can for fees, or taking our chances and getting DS help while he's at state school.

He's a sensitive soul though and I am a bit worried about the social aspect.

Can anyone help me with options I may not have considered? May be eligable for bursaries but am not sure want to put DS through the pressure of trying for a scholarship (I went to SPGS and have very mixed feelings). Is hard to know without trying past papers etc if DS will take to 11+-style teaching/learning.

When we go to apply for secondary schools, what happens if he doesn't get into any? Do we put fee-paying schools on the same form? I was thinking about applying to a couple of grammars and then the better schools which are further away but presumably there's a chance he may not get into any?

Can anyone help? The change in circumstance has been swift and brutal and I am a bit at sea really.

Hi,
Have you looked at Ashcroft Academy, it's got fanastic results and an outstanding ofsted report this year. The thing with Aschcroft is that the intake is divided in 5 bands, therefore there is more of chance of getting in rather than having to live on the door step.In my dd yr7 class there are quite a few children coming from the clapham area. The good thing about them is they have a full sibling policy and not just on distance,like some selective wandsworth schools.
If your thinking of going down the private route I would definately suggest Whitgift a few boys from dd yr6 class have started there

Just wanted to stick up for Lambeth Academy - my DS is in Year 8. He loves it there. The school's pastoral care got outstanding in their recent Ofsted and the reputation passed around in local playground gossip seems undeserved to me. I would definitely advise going to their open evening/days (next week). DS was offered a place at Chestnut Grove as were about 15 pupils from his primary school class (all living around the area you live in), so I would also consider that school - bit surprised they told you there was no chance. They had (have?) a language or art specialism test which you can take which may increase your chances of getting in.
I wanted DS to be able to walk to school and neither he nor we regret choosing LA. Apart from anything else the walk up Abbeville Road and Elms Road and absolutely lovely.

sorry meant to add that they are loving it there.And its so easy to get to.
As for the wandsworth test we were told by our primary school that the best papers to practice on were the NFER ones, but we also did the 10 minute Bond Test which were a real help.
Goodluck I hope the school hunting goes well for you.

We saw Ashcroft Academy but it seemed so far - reeling a bit from being told that despite Stockwell Park being exactly the same distance from us as Lambeth Academy DS would not be able to get in there!

I'll have a look at Ashcroft's entrance policy, thankyou for the tip!

Umm, I am not sure that will help as we had some quite unusual issues...but I can say that between my two children (boy and girl with a 3 year gap), we have applied or considered applying to pretty well all the schools mentioned here and more!

We were told that the Graveney pass mark after waiting list movement the year before last approximated to 98% (all % are approximations because of the standardising method used) - have a look at the NFER papers and see what you think. You can see the stats for the Sutton grammars on their websites - and bear in mind that this is a self selecting group many of whom have practised for years. IME, both these types of schools are 'harder' to get into than the selective independents. Banding can mean that the final distances are longer for some bands than others but there is no way of knowing which those will be in advance for any given year.

Another tip - if you go to open days at schools where the journey is an issue, do it by whatever method your child will be using to test it out at the morning rush time. You'll get a feel for how long and how stressful it really is, and what it 'feels' like.

"If your ds is somewhere near (a projected) achieving level 5 in the NC things for yr 6, he will almost certainly get a place at one of the selective schools/streams. Really."

CrystalChandelier - I appreciate that this has been your experience but it really isn't that simple. I know several boys who achieved L5 in Y6 (some achieved L5 in Y5) who didn't get into any of the Sutton grammars. Entry is hugely competitive and Tiffin is even worse. Thousands of children from all over the place sit the exams.

Agree with twoterrors re doing the journey at the "real" time to get a feel for it - somewhere further away might be an easier journey than somewhere close!!!

I do feel for you, it is such a stressful time. Good luck!

I really wouldn't try Kumon for a child in your DS's position. What about Kip McGrath -- that's more targeted at him as an individual and much less doing the same trivial thing again and again and again.

Another tip for VR preparation if you can face it is to wade through the free vocabulary lists downloadable from eleven plus websites. This one v good:

www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/pdf/11-plus-NFER-word-list.pdf

Many of the questions are about words with double meanings and the same examples crop up again and again. So if you can get the list into their heads you've cracked a good proportion of the test. Also anagram techniques worth persisting with.

Tisane you've got ages to practice all this stuff so you've got a huge advantage.

I was wondering whether you'd considered Stockwell OP. I think the reason you wouldn't get in is that the population density gets much heavier as you go further north - there's some huge high-rise estates between you and Stockwell, but as you head outwards that becomes less intense - not to mention the Commons.

Yes Dilys that makes sense. It was a shock though!

We have had a look at some of the Southern Ind schools (my only experience was of the inds further in), and many of them would be easy journeys - St Dunstan's currently run a coach which stops just a few minutes away. We should make use of our proximity of Clapham Junction and thankyou all so much for making me realise that.

Totally see your point re: grammars/Graveney - who wouldn't want their child to go to a grammar rather than a fee-paying, and if families are considering fee-paying (and tutoring accordingly), it makes sense to go for the grammars too.

We probably could - at a stretch and with help from family - cope with fee-paying BUT we have younger DCs and DH is very anti DS having advantages they do not. By the time they hit secondary school age DS will be at GCSE level; we'd hope that current issues were well resolved by then and we could move somewhere with better state provision but that would mean taking DS out of his hypothetical fee-paying school and oh dear lord it's all such a mess.

Thankyou all for helping me discount kumon, sounds like it would have done more harm than good. I will look into Kip McGrath and investigate the VR stuff. Thankyou all so much.

If anyone has any other thoughts do please share them! This has been such a helpful (if occassionally grey-hair-inducing), thread for me. Thankyou so much.

OK, two more thoughts.....

Given the way your are thinking, I would spread your net wide: try and identify at least one or two schools where you are likely to get a place under distance criteria that you are happy with; if you are very likely and very happy respectively, then you can relax; if not, identify and look hard at the state selective/hoop-jumping options and start working towards them; finally, and as a back up/in case things change identify a couple of independents - one more selective than the other. With a fair bit of leg work on your part, you can save your son anxiety and perhaps yourself stress.

For preparation, I would do stuff now like puzzle books, logic puzzles, word games, reading widely and off beaten track with your son, bit of theatre if you can, keeping it fun and low-key, and a chance to spend time together without the younger ones if you can manage that. This may help you get a feel for how his mind works, and how he is likely to work with you. Then, after Christmas, take a decision about whether you want to aim for the hard-core selective schools and if so whether you want a tutor. I would not pay for anything that is not completely geared to those particular schools - you would be better downloading/buying some of the vast range of papers available and doing them with him - but depending on how working together goes and how much time you have, it can be easier to delegate! One final warning: I would decide and then go for it either way - I think it is very tough on children, however bright, who are sent in to face an exam session lasting over three hours, with lots of dots and squiggles to be analysed at high speed, for a very competitive school who have not had a chance to practise, and also to talk through how the system does or does not make sense to them!

twoterrors thankyou.

I am sorry for the hand-holding but how do I find a school which doesn't have a distance criteria which rules us out? I've looked at all the nearish-but-not-that-near decent ones (and the rubbish ones), and they all seem to have a proximity rule. Lambeth Academy remains the least worst likely option (and it is pretty bad). Are there any schools you know of which don't have distance as a selection criteria?

We do many of the things you suggest already, thank goodness! I agree it's massively unfair to send a child into any kind of exam without warning and preparation. An aquantaince put her gifted and talented year 6er through the grammar exams (Sutton area), and he failed them all - it sounds like he had no idea what to do or how to do it, which just isn't fair for anyone.

Kingsdale in Southwark has no distance criteria, and as far as I know "specialist" places do not - eg language/art places at Chestnut Grove. This is where the fine tooth comb and admissions criteria come in - and they can change every year and more may go down this route as more become academies and have the right to select a % on "aptitude" - trying to find back doors and not waste one of your CAF options on a no-hoper. I am assuming you are not church goers? I would look round everything you can though that you might meet distance criteria for - it can be surprising.

That's it exactly about the preparation. The types of exam vary a lot, if you are heading fro the selective route, so just make sure you cover all the bases.

Good luck. Stay calm and focussed and try to help your son see the funny side of the system occasionally!

realitychick - very interesting post. helpful to me as I blunder into this zone...

St Cecilias which isn't far from Ashcroft seems to have an very wide catchment area. There are some really nice children there and a caucus of sensible parents who will drive up standards. There seem to be moves afoot to improve the leadership and you might just squeeze in before it starts to take off. It is CofE though.

it is very CofE though ... a friend of mine couldn't get her children in there (they are Baptists) because they were the "wrong sort" of Christian

If you are near the No3 bus route (Brixton Road), then Kingsdale is very easy to get to for you - a longish bus ride (20-30 mins), but not a bad one, since it's against the rush hour traffic.

Quite a few come in on the No3 route & from quite far out - definitely no distance criteria. They also do places for musical & sports aptitude, though not sure if that gives you any admission advantage.

P.S. Kingsdale also has Specialist Status in Maths - though honestly not sure how much that counts for, since all state schools seem to have to have specialist status in something these days...

Don't Kingsdale allocate places in a rather complicated way ?
I know they have 3 ability bands and that they use a lottery system ,also that they have scholarships .

Most of Lambeth, and an increasing number of other boroughs' schools, now allocate places according to banding of some sort. I know why they do it, but it means it's virtually impossible to know how likely you are to get into anywhere.

Yes, but it is easier to predict when it is banding then distance, rather than banding then lottery.....the schools will give you data for the maximum distances for each band in previous years if you ask.

Well, banding then lottery means it just isn't predictable at all really - so it's worth applying if you like the school and want a chance of a place.

But less good if you want to fill a place on the form with a reasonably safe bet.

(And yes, Kingsdale's allocation does seem complicated but having been through it, I have to say it did ultimately seem fair at each stage).

London Nautical School?

If you are looking at Indies it may be worth talking to the Registrars at Alleyns, Dulwich College, and Emmanuel. All three have a good reputation for giving both scholarships and bursaries. The latter is also slightly cheaper.

Other than that, I feel for you. Secondary schooling in Lambeth is a nightmare, and a complete disgrace.

We live further into the educational black hole which is North Lambeth, so always realised that private was the most likely option. Tiffin is close to impossible unless you want your child to give up to years of their life to VR and non-VR. My son never got offered a state school place, whilst my daughter had no chance of a place at the CofE school ten minutes walk away. Wrong borough, not holy enough and not bright enough. Instead she was allocated a place in a school three buses away, who - and I still find this shocking - would not even let us look round until their new students day in late June.

What parent would send their child to a school for 7 years without visiting first. It is almost discouraging parental support and involvement.

Rant over, and good luck. The shortage of school provision is absolutely unacceptable.