Does Oxbridge get the same Brownie points for a state grammar-school educated kid as for a state comp-educated one?

[BeckySharper]

Just wondering. You and Yours had a big programme on widening access to Oxbridge today, and it sounded like grammars and comps were equally weighted in terms of getting the state school leaver targets up.

The government pays the same amount of teaching funding for an Oxbridge student as at any other university, the only weighting is for subjects (ie a medical student gets more funding than a history student) but these weightings apply accross the board.

Oxbridge do of course have lots of other sources of funding such as donations and bequests that newer institutions have less access to.

Oh I see what you mean Becky - you're quite right, it would take a huge effort of will and confidence to go ahead with an Oxbridge application without support and encouragement from teacher and/or parents. My reaction was probably coloured by the fact that, inevitably, the parents I meet are the pushy ones.

Again I think this comes back to the need to aim outreach at schools not just students (which we do, but I'm not sure could ever do enough).

It's not plain sailing for pupils wanting to apply to Oxbridge from a very highly academic private school like Haberdasher's girls school. It may have changed in the last few years with a change of headteacher, but in my DD's day, when almost 100% were achieving A* at GSCE and about 98% achieving all As at A level only the very brightest of the bright were supported in their applications. Many more got stunning results and wanted to apply but were strongly discouraged from doing so, seemingly because the school wanted to uphold a reputation that all girls applying would be offered a place. Even the choice of college was picked over by the school as no two girls wanting to study the same subject could apply to the same college. And heaven forbid if any girl actually turned down a place - which one girl did.

The very widespread attitude I really hate (not confined to Habs) is that not going to Oxbridge marks you out as 'not quite good enough', academically. This is so not true, but it's perpetuated by all we read in the media. Remember lots of the academics at Oxbridge received their qualifications from other universites in the UK and across the world

Jnay - interesting points. Also, Oxbridge is getting less interest now from highly academic independent pupils. At my son's high-achieving independent, last year for the first time more boys went to US universities than Oxbridge where there is no gerrymandering on the basis of schools they come from. If this trend continues, competition for Oxbridge will be less from independendent schools, so more availability for those from the state sector.

Blimey Mrs G of G, I think it's a bit harsh to call it 'gerrymandering'. Presumably you sent your ds to a high achieving independent school because you believed it offered a far superior education to the local state. Do you honestly believe that for a boy to achieve all A *s from there is the same as from the school you paid to avoid? And if there is all this gerrymandering, why do 7% of the private school pupils take almost 50% of the places?

My DH told me of the chaos he went through to get into Oxbridge from his comprehensive. He was first in his family to go beyond GCSE and the school had never had anybody apply for Oxbridge. He applied for Math.

He found out that he needed a 'C' grade at GCSE in a modern/ancient language to be accepted by a college. He had dropped languages at GCSE because nobody told him about this. School also didn't even know what a STEP paper was and he had to arrange to take them himself.

He applied anyway but interview at College was complete disaster, he was shy, they wanted the GCSE lanaguage etc. Got rejected. He took offer at another Uni.

However he did so well at STEP papers that Math Department really wanted him and basically forced another college to take him without GCSE language (he also got 6 A's at A level which probably helped). He graduated top of his year with a starred first.

Nonetheless he never liked the college and spent all his time with friends from Department. He loved doing his PhD at Oxbridge but wonders whether he would have been better at another Uni for undergrad as he never fitted in.

I believe that obtaining a First from any university will open doors, if you're clever (excuse the pun). I got a First from a new university (ex poly); the First meant I didn't need a Masters and went straight on to a fully funded PhD studentship at a redbrick university. I've worked as an oxbridge academic ever since and lectured at other universities, so have a fairly good understanding of undergraduate and postgrad ability levels at these institutions. I'm not unusual, lots of my colleagues have similar backgrounds. I doubt I would have been offered a place as an undergraduate as my A levels were mediocre.
What seems to mark out many oxbridge students is their strong work ethic, and a growing sense of self worth and entitlement once they've been there any lenght of time, rather than any super intelligence.