How do you feel about private prep teachers not having a teaching qualification?

[arizonagirl]

Hi there,

After all my recent research on prep schools (which I know many of you have noticed ], I find it quite strange that a lot of the prep schools have a handful of teachers who just have a degree. I know that this has been mentioned before but it just doesn't rest easy with me. I had to do several years of training before entering teaching and I just can't see how anyone can teach without any training. In some subjects eg. drama, music, PE etc it makes total sense - it is more important to be a specialist in that subject. But I am referring to class teachers who just have a BSc or BA.

Does anyone have children in prep schools being taught by unqualified teachers? And does it bother you? I'm just wondering if anyone has any interesting alternative angle to offer to make me see it differently.

No, my children's schools - fairly well known academic ones don't. However I wouldn't mind. If someone has been a great teacher in the private sector for 25 or 30 years I would go after them like a shot compared to someone newly out of their PGCE. At my age - 40s - in my own profession it's your work experience when you're 20 years in which counts a lot more than what you might have been taught in your professional trainging 25 years ago.

Does't the Government sanction this anyway with its teach first thing? I would think great school not to be so stupidly PC only to tick boxes rather than look at the teaching experience of the person.

I agree with Xenia, My children go to a prep school whee I am sure most of the teaching staff are qualified teachers, however I know that a few of the specialist teachers aren't.
For example one of the science teaching staff came from a business background but is absolutely brilliant and brings a different prospective to the lessons.

Mind you they are also keen on employing NQT, this didn't go down well with the "old guard" parent. However the ones that are ther have brought a real sense of change and enthusiam to the lessons.

On the whole it wouldn't put me off having non "teachers" teaching the children as long as all the other aspects of the school were pleasing.

I would think that it gives the school a flexibility to employ the best person for the job regardless of their qualifications.

Good luck

It wouldn't bother me. I don't think a teaching qualification = a good teacher.

I think a good teacher is someone who has a passion and talent for their subject and an ability to teach it.

Very wise answers - thank you. Yes, that is a valid point that they would be great if they have several years of experience despite not having a teaching degree. I guess it is the younger teachers who are new in that worry me when I know they are fresh out of university. Guess that would be a good question to ask - thank you.

And yes, I totally agree, stoppingat3 (he, he - that was what I said, dc 4 due any day now ) that a great science teacher from a science background would probably be fab.

Thanks for your comments. Guess I would need to find out the context for why they have been employed without teaching degrees.

nancydrewrocked - yes, totally agree that a great subject teacher might have a real passion and make a great teacher. No problems there.

It is the prep teacher who is in charge of the younger ones as an all-rounder - ie. teaching numeracy, literacy and all foundation subjects that causes me the uncertainty.

Even in those circumstances it wouldn't bother me.

I think it is fairly easy to get a teaching qualification (thanks god this isn't in AIBU or I would await flaming). I reckon I could get one without too much bother but I would be a rubbish teacher. I mean really, really bad. Not least as I have no patience and don't much like other people's children.

So again an ability and passion for teaching and a fondness for children would be what counts IMO.

How much experience does s/he have?

I disagree about specialist teachers not requiring PGCEs. I am a specialist music teacher, I had a degree in music from very reputable college, but the PGCE was an essential part of my training. Too many music teachers out there in the private sector are there with chips on their shoulders because they didn't make it as performers/composers. The rigours of PGCE flushed this type out.

I would not consider sending my children to a school where there were unqualified teachers, and I certainly wouldn't pay for it!

However decisions many specilaist music and dance teachers will hold teaching diplomas, just not a PGCE.

I would favour a dance teacher with an RAD or ISTD teaching diploma over one with a degree and PGCE.

My son is at an academic prep in London and I think that all the teachers have a teaching qualification. Having said that if the prep is getting the kids through the CE and into the highly selective senior schools then clearly their staff can teach whether or not they have a teaching qualification.

I'm with the others on love of the subject and enjoying teaching as being key.

Having an unqualified class teacher would seriously bother me.
An unqualified music teacher not so much so.
Even PGCE bothers me.
At the moment I have 2 PGCE teachers in my class observing and they will be qualified in 12 months. The understanding they have at the moment is basic to put it kindly. The understanding they will have in 12 months tme will at best be barely adequate. It is not enough time to get to grips with child development, pedagogy, curriculum etc.
Teacher training is not great at the moment in my opinion.
In a prep school you sometimes, not always, get just adequate teachers. They may have a USP like being fab at judo.Many of the best teachers are in state schools in inner city schools. It is more satisfying work. It is the parents who do all the work in prep schools.

Spudmasher how is it the parents who do all the work in prep school? My son spends 7 hours a day in school and 15-25 mins doing homework 5 times a week. I struggle to see how c1-2 hrs a week supervising homework versus 35 hours a week in school equates to parents doing all the work.

Interesting thoughts. Wierd - I can see both points of view. I still think it is hard to teach without any training - not your subject but just the general classroom management side of things and how to extend those gifted children etc etc. And I do agree that if you are spending good money you do expect trained teachers - just like if you seek medical help you expect trained professionals in their field. And I do think spudmasher has a point about prep parents probably doing more at home than some children (although very very generalised) but then as chazbrilliantattitude says, our dc do spend far more time at school - we can't possibly equate to that time regardless of our efforts. Sorry, just rambling but finding everyone's thoughts fascinating.

No - the right accent and the right tie ia all you need.

Indeed. Actually, if you do have something as thoroughly common ordinary as a teaching qualification, that's frowned upon.

It was much better in the old days when all you needed was a good war record....

All of the teacher's at DD's prep school have teaching qualifications such as a PGCE or Bed, and QTS. The only "unqualified" teachers she has would be specialist subject instructors such as her swimming teachers or her judo instructor. This is the same for the local independents round here.

And it is a also the case that there are several state schools which emplot unqualified teaching staff too. State and independent schools are the same in that they are both legally able to employ unqualified teaching staff. Not sure if it is still the case but there wasm until v recently a pay scal for unqualified teaching staff in state schools.

"It is the parents who do all the work in prep schools."

Sorry spudmaster - I have to disagree with that massively. This is not my expereince at all. If that was the case I would not be paying for the privledge either.

Agree with Hulababy.

arizonagirl: I'm interested in what you've posted. How many prep schools are there in UK in the first place, and roughly how many make up the proportion you describe as "a lot"?

Also, did you check that none of those who list only what looks like a UK degree do not also hold QTS? Or that the degree is not an award from a foreign university and actually is a teaching qualification under different naming system?

I did hear about the extreme system when a former headmaster from a highly academic independent was deemed insufficiently qualified for the state sector, so tend to think that this issue might be about process rather than substance. Hence my interest in how widespread you found this to be, and in turn what correlations there may be with schools performance and reputation

In most good private schools the teachers virtually all have a PGCE. You might have some who have been teaching theref rore 30 years and are brilliant who just went into it from university when it wasn't essential in that sector. I haven't heard of newly qualified teachers taken on at any of the schools my chidlren have been at which all woudl be in the top 20 schools in the UK at A level anyway where there were new teachers being taken on without that.

Disagree o ver parents,. In the private sector you pay a lot of money to ensure the shool teaches adn your chidlren are there longer than in the state sector and I prefer schools which keep meddling parents particularly the fussy ones at a distance. In a sense I want to pay to ensure parents are kept out although of courtse you want feedback on your child etc.

At good private schools I know, they tend to put their teachers new to teacing but without a PGCE through a GTP.

As to the person who said getting a teaching qualification is easy? Well as someone who has done one, they take blood sweat and tears. Until you have done one you have no idea just what goes in to just 5 minutes of seemingly easy teaching in a classroom.

A few non-teaching qualified teachers wouldn't both me. A lot would, as would lots of GTP qualified (I just think they tend to be trained in how one school teaches, and often haven't had their preconceived ideas challenged).

I would not bother me with an older experienced teacher who brings a lot of other skills. However, with a new teacher in a Prep I would want to see a PGCE or a first degree from a good university.

What does bother me about the senior school attached to our DSs Prep is that quite a lot of the teachers do not have a first degree in a proper subject. Quite a lot only have a BEd. Certainly above age 13 I want DCs taught by people with a degree in the subject they teach. I am less bothered about the formal teaching qualification at senior school.

It depends on the specific teachers. If they are older, they may have been granted Qualified Teacher Status by the government in the 70's without a specific teaching qualification. If they are newly appointed, the school may be trying to save money. If they are gappies, they will be primarily helping out staff, so do not need a teaching background.

Most schools will recruit only those people with existing teaching qualifications. They will also make sure that they are up to date with important educational advances and best practices.

Any school you look at should be a member of ISA.

mummytime I knew someone would pull me up on my comment .

My point was more just because you can get a teaching qualification doesn't make you a good teacher.

When I was at school many of my peers who didn't get the grades to follow the more academically rigerous paths of law/medicine/accountancy went into teaching. Again it may not be a popular view but teaching was certainly "sold" as a sound alternative for those that did not make the grade.

I think teaching is a vocation - and whilst some training is of course essential I am not sure the ability to teach can really be learnt: sure training helps but some people no matter how academically talented (and good they are at ticking boxes and passing exams) will not make good teachers and vice versa.

In my DC's school (Overseas british private) the head of the prep didn't having any teaching qualifications but she was undoubtedly excellent at what she did. having said that I haven't come accross the situation in the UK (although embarassingly I have never specifically asked)

Wouldn't bother me at all if the teachers were good at their job.

In fact, I think it's a shame that state schools are hampered from taking certain teachers because they haven't got the right bits of paper...sports in particular, I'm thinking of.

That said, in the primary where I volunteer, the teachers do need skills in heavy classroom management, as things easily slip out of control because of the sheer class size and behaviour of some of the pupils.
I'm assuming this is all part of the qualifications they take. Someone who doesn't have them would struggle I feel.