Faith school funding

[nancymogg]

On various threads re Faith Schools the point is made that the church contributes to the running costs of the schooland so is justified in setting criteria. Does anyone know what percentage of the overall costs this amounts to? All I can find on google is a contribution of 10% of capital expenditure ( this could be completely wrong), which seems a small investment given the control it offers

Nope you are absolutely correct.

For 10% of the capital costs you get to start a school with a Creationist agenda, or any other fundamentalist ideology.

No ongoing commitment. Bargain eh?

The funding goes with the pupils who happen to be real people and just as entitled to public funds as pupils at any other maintained school.

You still have to teacher the National Curriculum, with possibly a slightly modified RE curriculum, but which is still controlled usually by the diocese and is subject to scrutiny by OFSTED etc. You still get OFSTED inspected, and can fail (eg. one Catholic school which refused among other things to teach about Sex was put into special measures).
Also the church usually owns the land the school is on, or has been given the use of it with strict covenants on its use.

The 10% is the cost of new buildings. So a C of E controlled school needing a £1,000,000 can only get a maximium of £900,000 from the government. It then has to raise £100,000 itself, and the C of E is not as rich as you might think (lots of expensive churches to keep in good repair, a heavy pensions burden and falling investment returns), so can rarely help much. So the parents end up fund raising, and in a nice middle class area they are even less likely to get help with the bill.

The figure of 10% is the minimum required to create a school.

However, many schools then have more spent on them by the relevant church etc. I know that our local catholic secondary had its sixth form block built by the diocese, and that other running costs are funded in a similar way.

Whilst some academies may be started by organisations/ faiths that promote creationism, neither the Catholic Church nor the Church of England follow this, both believe in evolution.

You have to teach the National Curriculum, however what happens in practice, as opposed to in theory, is that it is possible to teach the Science curriculum, but somehow, amazingly, all the children in the class come to the conclusion that evolution is unproven.

It may not be large numbers of schools, but they are increasing, and there are still hundreds of children passing through them.

The principle of course is the real problem. If Coca Cola, a Brewery or a tobacco company, offered 10% of the price of building the school in return for the massive level of control that it would receive for ever more there would be an outcry.

It would not be seen in the public interest for our children to exposed to the indoctrination. And yet, despite the evidence from areas of conflict like Northern Ireland or Israel, dividing children arbitrarily along religious lines, emphasising their difference over community cohesion and preventing them from being truly educated, by being exposed to ideas their parents might disagree with, is seen as something to be applauded. I don't get it.

And Mummytime, we are not just talking about Church schools, we are talking about all faiths - Jewish, Muslim, Hindu and schools which are funded by wealthy individuals with a particular world view.

The number of Faith schools which are not Catholic or C of E are very small. And some such as the Oasis ones wouldn't dream of teaching creationism.

The reason the numbers increase are: a) they often (but not always) get better results; b) religions often emphasis charitable giving, so religious groups are more likely to give money for no reward (we need more Bill Gates), and government is trying to get more/improve schools on the cheap.

Maybe even c) in the US schools are funded on a local level, so you can pay more local taxes (or have richer people who provide more taxes) and so spend more on your schools.

Finally if you have no religious instruction in school you end up like in the US where religion is not mentioned in school, so knowledge of other religions is minimal (all religious instruction comes from the home and church).

I think it helps to put this in it's historical context.

In the post war period, when our universal state education system really started, it was decided to utilize many existing schools rather than find the money to build all state schools from scratch.

The existing schools included many church schools, and some 'private' schools which became state schools (now voluntary aided state schools).

The church or founder organization often owned the land and buildings. In exchange for taking 'state pupils' they kept some autonomy.

60 years ago - the church was, in the main, well regarded for it's role in educating those unable to pay for an education - so I doubt there was much objection then.

Thank you for your replies.
So if I were to find 10 people to put in £10000 each for building costs ( broadly similar to 1 to 2 years private school fees)and gain funding. I could in theory set up a school and create my own entry criteria?!
Do the church or the state own this grant funded building when it is completed?

nancymogg - to start a school you'll need to check out Michael Gove's Free School program!

I expect there's a lot more to it, though. The majority of applicants approved to progress so far, seem to be teachers or other education experts. You will also need to abide by admissions legislation (as do all state funded schools).

You would be creating a "free" school, so you'd need to see what the rules are for that.

Don't think you're allowed to have any entry criteria- that's the catch.

Not seriously considering opening my own school, but would like to know who owns the assets.
Let's consider an example. King David High School, Liverpool, undergoing a complete rebuild at present. How would I find out what the costs were and how much was contributed by the Jewish community.

Whilst your admissions criteria need to comply with Equality legislation, actually, Free Schools and Academies have much more control both about admissions AND crucially about permanently expelling children, so you could start your own school and then set rules enabling you to kick out the kids you did not like.

Attached is a legal opinion by Education Law barrister David Wolfe

www.thetruthaboutourschools.com/2010/06/15/a-legal-opinion-on-the-academies-bill/

Nancy, you could make a Freedom of Information request to the relevant education authority (Council).

Me again

This link from the DoE confirms that Free schools do not need to follow the National Curriculum

www.education.gov.uk/freeschools/whatarefreeschools

and all the boxes you need to tick are here

www.education.gov.uk/freeschools/frequently-asked-questions#g3

Not sure about the school you refer to but I believe the land the school is on is often owned by the church. In London a Catholic high school near me would probably built on land easily in excess of £20million if sold privately, that land belongs to the Catholic church so it couldn't just change into a non-faith local state school.

That might be true 23balloons, however, in the end there are 2 alternative scenarios.

If State funding was withdrawn, the Church could continue to act as a landlord to a non faith school, which would garner support in the community from Catholics or non Catholics, or the land could be sold, but with no guarantee of planning permission for anything other than a school. It would then be up to the local community, planning authority and local councillors to ensure that the site remains a school.

According to the King David website in the case of this particular school the 10% funding needed for capital expenditure yearly is met entirely by 'voluntary' contribution from pupils.
The school is an interesting example as it has a very small percentage of Jewish students and fills it's places with children who actively worship other faiths. These children then follow the National Curriculum multi faith worship as followed in comprehensives. I feel it illustrates the relationship between faith schools and the middle class community.
If practising your faith is the true reason for application to a school rather than its 'outstanding' rating why would you select a school promoting a different religion.
What justification is there for the entrance criteria other than social engineering from the point of view of the school?
Sorry slightly off topic

Yes, social engineering is the main reason.

I believe the other reason for extending the criteria is to ensure that the school is not in breach of anti-discrimination legislation. As example, there are very, very few Afro-caribbean children who are Jewish (there is a small population from Ethiopia I believe, a number of whom emigrated to Israel to escape a famine, but very few came here). The same sort of issue applies to some other religions (Hinduism and Rastafarianism leap to mind).

As you cannot discriminate on the grounds or race or religion, directly or indirectly ie by setting a rule or admission criteria that effectively prevents someone from a particular race or religion from accessing a public service - the key case being about a school which would not allow a Sikh boy to wear a turban, because it contravened their uniform policy, which was deemed unlawful.

A fair number of faith schools have a "as long as you belong to some faith" as a second admission criterion, but expect to fill all their places on their first criterion.

The interesting point with this school is that 90% of its intake is from the 'socially desirable' other faith category.
By the way I have no particular axe to grind against this particular school, if it applied rational entry criteria my child would still have little/no chance of entry.