Would you choose to move to an area with the 11+ or an area with very good comps?

[arizonagirl]

We are busy debating where to move to (as some of you might have already noticed from previous threads - thanks everyone, so much help from these boards!!)

We are being realistic and realise that we will be unlikely to keep our four children in private - it was mainly a necessity after moving back from abroad.

We can move anywhere within commuting distance of London. I am tempted to look at Tunbridge Wells, Bucks for the 11+ and grammar schools but know how hard they are to pass. Ds is doing very well and so would probably have a good chance. But I am not sure all the stress/worry about one exam is worth it?

Just wondering what others would choose - an area with grammar school option or an area with good comps?? Also, are grammar schools that much better than comps - I'm not sure.

Any thoughts? Thank you!

Gosh, I'm surprised at this. Often when people ask for advice about where to move for good schools, MNetters invariably recommend areas with grammars. But this thread suggests that what most people want is a good comprehensive school. (I agree, personaly for me its a no-brainer).
So why do people often recommend, or say they wished we had more grammar schools?

I have no idea maybe they have never experienced putting a ten year old through exam hell.

I would like a comp with above 50% pass mark. Not less than 20% as is ours (Sometimes as low as 10%). I would like a good social mix of all faiths and backgrounds. I actually think most people would be happy with that. Without grammar schools and church schools that would probably be possible for all.

totally agree Mrsdoof. Which is why it actually DOES matter when clever middle class kids take flight from the local comp. Which is another example of flawed logic in that Guardian article. (yes I realise it is a bit chicken and egg, but it is really not helped by all this fear inducing propaganda in the middle class press).

Exactly, we always have a mass exodus from the area in year five. It makes the kids left behind feel dreadful. We started year six with five of my dds friends already gone. The same happened to my older dd. I expect the same will happen to the youngest.

Although I guess not all schools can achieve >50% pass rates, since I think that is close to national average? My LA average is more like 40% so if all comps fairly banded we wouldn't get >50%. Even our two 'acceptable' (i.e. most middle class) are around 55%.

Yes maybe 50 is to high I would be very very happy with 40%

West Kent is very pleasant but you do hear horror stories about children passing the 11plus and being offered school places as far away as Dover, so over subscribed are the local grammars. Bennett Memorial, local comp, has a good reputation but is again oversubscribed. There are lots of local private schools so if you have the money you can find a place for your children somewhere. Our DDs went to Grammar school, however, if we had the time again, I think we would move to an area with outstanding comprehensives but only if that guaranteed a place for our daughters. Girls grammars are a hotbed of stress, eating disorders and competition for academic attainment. I'm not at all sure that is the best atmosphere to thrive in.

Any such horror stories about grammar schools for boys sue52?

thedollyridesout Sorry my experience is only limited to girls grammar schools. Around my way they are single sex until 6th form when they take on a few extra pupils. I think coeds might be a bit more chilled out. Sorry about the rant.

Before I had children I'd have said comps for political reasons, I think they are a fairer system for all children. (I also assumed that of course MY children would be grammar school types in terms of academic ability).

And now I have 3 primary aged children I am so so so glad we are in an area with (mediocre, in most people's eyes) comps rather than in a grammar area. I have one who'd probably pass any selective exam, one who'd be borderline and not clearly academic or unacademic. She's 10 and she's impossible to classify really. Vague and arty and dreamy and odd. And I have one who's currently in the remedial literacy class.

I really really would not have liked to have my children divided into 11+ successes and failures.

I think the 'folk memory' of the 11 plus has been forgotten by a lot of people. There was a reason why grammars were (nearly) abolished. The problem wiht grammars is that everyone thinks they are fine, as long as their child gets in!
Trouble is now we have this minefield of 'choice' which in some ways is worse as the criteria are not transparent -and it certainly hasn't managed to even out performance.

Some people assume that all grammars are single sex ? that certainly isn?t the case in Bucks (one of the areas the OP said she was looking at), we have several mixed-sex grammar schools for those who don?t like the idea of single sex education. Just saying

OMG, did you see that documentary tonight on children taking the 11+. Now I am really thinking that I could never put my four children through that. One time perhaps - but four times - I would be grey by my mid-forties!! I was almost in tears watching those poor children go through such stress at such a young age - but imagine if it was your own!!!

Was going to drive to Bucks tomorrow to see if we want to move there but now I am not so sure...

DD sat and passed the 11+ for a state grammar. Zero coaching and zero stress. I think some people just go a bit manic. Look at the thread on that Andrew Penman article where he moved house and caused untold stress just to get into a comp that had a 2% better pass rate than his local comp.

What Quattroento said.

Some parents create the stress - especially in private schools. I've heard of coaching from Y3, and parents promising huge gifts, like Playstations if their kid passes. I think that is so wrong. We told ours they could have a CD if they worked hard.

We also didn't coach for DC2 & 3 after a bad experience with DC1. We just went through some old papers. TBH, if your kid can't pass with that, are they going to keep up with the grammar school pace?

Remember Arizonagirl that in Bucks your children would take just one test for all schools. As someone else said it does not have to be stressful- that comes from the parents. We did a couple of papers just to get the feel of them, timing etc. The big issue with Bucks is to make sure that you are in an area that has a good Upper School in case they do not get the required mark.
Have you looked at the Bucks section of the 11 Plus Forum?

Depends on how Baby turns out.

If he/she is academically able, bright and seems to enjoy exams, 11+ area. I went to a grammar and it was great! But only because I love exams, and academic subjects, and could work fast.

If Baby is less academic, good comps.

Which areas would people say have good comprehensives? I'm in SE London on the border of Kent, and neither of these areas do.

I also agree with Quattro it is the parents who create the stress. However, unless you home ed your children will not be taking the 11 plus in a bubble with no contact with other kids/parents. Other children will talk about it to your children and their parents may also.

The TV program last night was very accurate. For many kids it is stressful no matter how calm you are yourself.

Billericay in Essex (very near Ingatestone mentioned by Magicmummy1 above) has 2 excellent comprehensives and also the option for a range of Grammars in Westcliff, Southend, Chelmsford and Colchester.

Only 30 mins into Liverpool Street too so excellent commuter town.

But I know that in Kent, there can be not only the competition to get into a grammar, but to get into the right grammar, or the grammar with all your friends, for which you need phenomenally good marks. Having seen my very academic DN go through it, I would stay well away from 11+

Some great, valid points - thank you! Have to admit I didn't realise there were different pass marks for different grammar schools. So even if you pass, you still face lots of disappointment. A lot of stress for such a little person. But we have our children in preps at the moment and are having to make sacrifices - state schools weren't an option for us when we returned from abroad (huge waiting lists) but we know we won't be able to afford private education for four later on. Dilemmas, dilemmas. Thanks again everyone.

Good comps definitely. The stress you will place on the whole family simply wondering if all 4 will pass the 11+ - well, it would certainly put my sanity to the test.

Good comps every time! Everyone seems to assume that their DC will pass the exam! (they might fail). I know twin girls (nothing between them in ability) one got the grammar school place and one didn't.

Arisonagirl, in Bucks, there is a single pass mark for all grammars. Grammars are no longer allowed to select children by passmark, but by the LEA wide admission criteria, of which catchment area and distance from school are the main ones.