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Original poster

Getting into Oxbridge with average A'level results via 'connections'?

100 replies

Cortina · 03/09/2010 12:12

Reading with interest, that this did happen in the late 80s. A case of a (very) well connected lad who got a
BCC (and fell short of his conditional offer by a distance). His family had been to Oxford for generations. His father insisted he was 'Oxford material' and in the end he was accepted.

I imagine this happens rarely if at all now?

OP posts:
witchwithallthetrimmings · 03/09/2010 13:03

you didn't really pass or fail the exam. The exam was used as a screening device to get the set of most "able" (read well trained) students to take to interview. After the interviews each college would then decide whether to give you a place or put you into the "pool" (to see if another college would want you) or to reject you outright.

bathbuns · 03/09/2010 13:07

Can I completely brag here and say my offer to Oxbridge was unconditional. They told me they didn't care what my exam grades were. Which was lucky as I didn't get good ones. I still went. (I haven't told anyone that before, it feels quite nice to say it!)

aquavit · 03/09/2010 13:07

Sorry Benign, perhaps you are better informed than me about 'matriculation offers'. I've never come across them but maybe they are there for other subjects (might make more sense for non-arts subjects? and I'm in arts).

But generally speaking stellar A level results - along with a raft of other tests of academic aptitude - are the ONLY way in.

I get quite cross with stories like this because they reinforce the unfortunately widespread sense that Oxford is for a certain type of person, and we battle very hard (often against the perceptions of the schools) to help students from less privileged backgrounds see that it simply isn't like that.

Original poster
Cortina · 03/09/2010 13:07

It says that he 'failed to get a place' after he took a post A-level entrance exam? Surely if you are rejected, and perform poorly it's a fail?

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overthemill · 03/09/2010 13:07

personally i think interviews are so much better than the current UCAS system. For all Higher Education. Gives someone a chance to talk to candidate and it doesn't all rest on the ridiculous personal statement - that someone else could have written

and i went to a Poly...

Original poster
Cortina · 03/09/2010 13:08

Ah, just saw Witch's explanation.

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sethstarkaddersmum · 03/09/2010 13:09

oh, I bet it could happen.
You would just need agreement between a few key figures in the college, and if there is anyone involved in the admissions procedure who wouldn't be likely to play ball you would wait until they were on holiday or away at a conference then do it over their head, then they would come back to a fait accompli which they would then either put up with risk dragging the college into a massive scandal and risking their own career by going public.
Colleges still get to make their own admissions decisions AFAIK so it wouldn't have to be a massive university-wide conspiracy.

However if it does still happen it would be very rare and would not be a reliable strategy as a way to get your thick son into Oxford - probably easier to send him to a good school and get one of this teachers to do his coursework for him Smile

sethstarkaddersmum · 03/09/2010 13:11

sorry, that should say 'put up with OR risk dragging the college....'

aquavit · 03/09/2010 13:22

sethstarkaddersmum, it just wouldn't and couldn't happen like that. Colleges do make their own decisions but they are closely scrutinised by the university and the faculties, and it would be EXTREMELY obvious if anyone got in who had poor exam results - especially if they were British exams.

The most obvious place that there could be some corruption is with overseas students, whose school results are harder to interpret for the British system. The recent sting set up by one of the papers sought to take advantage of this - but in fact even in that case, there was no sense that the supposed student had not achieved good results, simply that he was to be positioned ahead of his academic equals for a place because of a proposed donation.

These misconceptions (college conspiracies, cosiness with schools, the secret advantages of being wealthy and connected) really make me angry: they are a major reason why we get such a skewed application (a disproportionately high number of people applying from public/private schools) and consequently, have to accept a non-representative undergraduate field.

MrsDoofenshmirtz · 03/09/2010 13:23

My brother got in via entrance exam also with an offer of 2Es, it was in the seventies. He had no connections came from a state comp and wore ripped jeans to the interview. Those were the days !

sethstarkaddersmum · 03/09/2010 13:33

maybe the scrutiny has improved since the 90s then Aquavit!

lostFeelings · 03/09/2010 13:46

why do ppl say that unconditional offers don't exist?
my nephew got to Cambridge on 2 EE - maybe Oxford is different

glasjam · 03/09/2010 13:47

I always remember Prince Edward getting into Jesus College Cambridge with a C and two Ds and my history teacher at the time absolutely spitting feathers about it! Connections obviously counted then.

TrillianAstra · 03/09/2010 13:56

I agree with lostfeelings - I know of peopel who had EE offers in this century.

You apply, the college decides whether or not to interview you, then they decide whether they want you. They might decide that they want you to come if you get AAA or AAB, or they might decide that they want you to come no matter what your A-level results end up being, in which case they give you an EE offer. It's rare, but it does happen, and it's entirely at the college's discretion.

Note: no-one I know who had an offer like that had particular 'connections', they must have just impressed the admissions tutors in their subjects.

Lilymaid · 03/09/2010 13:59

One boy is DS1's year at school got an EE offer for Cambridge. He was extremely able, had been accelerated up a year at a very academic school and had difficult family circumstances (and no influence whatsoever). Others in his year were given the more usual high offers.

MIFLAW · 03/09/2010 14:03

EE offers were nothing to do with favouritism or connections and everything to do with excelling in exams and interviews (1992 LMH, mod langs.)

Something I do remember people talking about at the time were "special" degrees for people who happened to be Olympic-standard rowers in their spare time - could this guy have got in on one of those?

drivingmisscrazy · 03/09/2010 14:05

well, I got a 2E offer in the 1980s, after sitting the entrance exam. I was subsequently involved in admissions for many years and never heard of or saw anything like this despite lots of urban myths and wild rumours. I did once get an approach from a very well-known journalist attempting to intercede on behalf of her (only averagely bright) daughter - got the whole 'you know who I am' spiel. Despite myself being a nobody (which was what she was banking on) I am proud to say that I told her where to put her suggestion, and that I was deeply insulted that she thought that I would put my integrity on the line in this way. What she didn't know (and this tells you everything you need to know) is that I come from a very ordinary family, where no-one had even been to university before, so I was not very sympathetic to her pleas!

IME lilymaid's experience is more usual...they wanted him and were prepared to help him, Bet he got great results anyway

PollyParanoia · 03/09/2010 14:29

I had a friend who got in post A levels with ABC in the late 80s. She failed to get in to her first choice college but her dad was a professor and spoke to someone else "at the pool" (which always makes me think of them standing around in their swimmers) and voila she was offered a place. Even then ABC was not good enough to get in unless you'd done the entrance exam and got a 2E offer.
And I do remember rumours about a boy (think Peter Mandelson and George Osborne's holiday in Corfu) and how he'd got in to Oxford...

Original poster
Cortina · 03/09/2010 14:30

Aqua - if you believe John Rae then certainly it did happen -at least in this one case. Connections were the reason the boy got a place or to use his words 'it was a classic illustration of how power is exercised in Britain'.

His letter suggesting this boy was suitable for Oxford (when he really believed he was only so-so academically) swung it for him. (After his parents dedicated earlier campaign).

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pippop1 · 03/09/2010 14:32

DS2 failed to get an offer at Oxford this year, although he had an interview which he thought went well. All As for GCSE, scholarship to prestigious private school (but wouldn't have gone otherwise) and 2 x A and 2 x A for his four A levels. He did have to sit an apptitude test for his subject (History) and submit an essay so perhaps that was why he didn't get an offer in the end. He bounced back and is off to Durham next month which is full of Oxbridge rejects apparently. He was close, but not quite close enough presumably. No "connections" and I didn't even go to Uni although his dad did.

greentriangle · 03/09/2010 14:37

I know someone who went to a good uni with far from good enough grades (not oxbridge, but don't want to name & shame). His father gave a MASSIVE donation to the uni and this was only 10-15 years ago.

Original poster
Cortina · 03/09/2010 14:41

Green, from what Rae infers this has happened at public schools in the past. Possibly still does? Rae says whilst he wouldn't have accepted a personal bribe he would have acceptable a substantial 'donation' to the school (this would have benefitted the children etc).

The child must be at least so-so academically though, just slightly below required standard.

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mrswoodentop · 03/09/2010 14:46

I knew a girl in the 1980s who got a closed scholarship to Oxford.Only girls from her school were entitled to apply for it ,she got it even though her Alevels were nowhere near Oxbridge type grades ,but as top of her (very small )year group she was pretty much guaranteed a place.She got a third i think

BenignNeglect · 03/09/2010 14:48

aquavit they are possible in all subjects (save medicine) I believe. While DH was there one was given for law (student was amazing apparently). I've also heard of one in engineering. Massively rare though - usually it's AAA or higher required.

Bonsoir · 03/09/2010 14:53

It doesn't really bother me if an 18 year old who is borderline on the wrong side of Oxbridge admission gets a place because his/her parents cough up £squillions in donations for the college/university. So many beneficiaries of the £squillions, after all...