Tutoring advice: 11+ tests for top girls schools

[znmum]

I'm a working mum and need advice on how to best prepare my daughter for the Godolphin/St Paul's Girls School entrance tests. She is in Year 4 at a good prep school and is doing well academically, but based on what I've read on this forum and others, it seems that girls need additional coaching outside of school. Would be grateful if anyone can recommend a good tutor in the SW area.

I doubt if she would need extra tutoring if she is at a good prep. Make sure the school knows what school she is aimimg at and they will know best how to prepare her. They generally know their stuff, they have been doing it for years.

Extra coaching is generally needed for those at state primaries as these schools will not on principle prepare pupils for private schools entry tests (or often for grammar school entry tests).

I would talk it over with your DD's teachers and they will be able to advise you if they think those schools would be suitable for your DD.

Frankly, if your DD is at a good prep and needs extra tutoring to get into these schools they are not right for her.

Both St Paul's and Godolphin are extremely academic and frankly if your dd needs tutoring to get in I wouldn't consider either of them to be suitable.

Also, y4 is too early to start tutoring even if she were at a state primary doing no preparation - she'd be bored witless by the time she actually took the tests.

Agree with DancingHippo - talk to your dd's school and be guided by them

I second the last two posts. A good prep school should do all the prep you need for 11+ your part is to support with what they ask for and ensure homework is well done. Coaching on top is a poor idea as she may well get into a school which is not suited to her ability and she will struggle throughout which means that her energies will be directed to academics solely and she will not benefit from the extracurricular.

If your child were in a state school then they will need extra tuition.

I would add a caveat.

If she is at one of the girls 11+ preps in West London who expect the majority of their pupils to go on to SPGS/G&L/Francis Holland etc, I would not bother unless the school told you she was a borderline candidate and could do with a bit of an extra push in one subject or practice in exam speed etc. There is a lot of history and trust and the school report will be important. If the prep says that the schools you mention would be a stretch then they are unlikely to give an unqualified recommendation.

However others a bit further away or co-ed, may not have the same focus on the very competitive West London do-or-die 11 plus, particularly if the majority are heading elsewhere eg boys 13 plus, Dulwich, grammer, girls boarding (Wycombe Abbey, Cheltenham Ladies etc.) The schools will need to keep up the subject teaching and so have less time to polish VR and non-VR exam skills, and your child might need some extra help with preparation.

Even so you dont want to do too much, as the process is fraught enough as it is and you want your child to remain calm and perform on the day. Buying a batch of papers and having your child get used to format and timing so they can go straight in and get on with it should be enough. And do get hold of as many past papers from the relevant school as you can. The school will have covered all the maths and English they need. The time might be better spent on extra curricular activities which build confidence and give a child something extra to talk about at interview.

Both the schools you mention are academic. SPGS is very full on and a borderline child might be better off higher up the ability range elsewhere. G&L is a lovely school with a reputation for nurturing and some super pupils, but it is not the only choice in an area whose schools are completely over represented in the League tables and where choices include LEH, Putney, Wimbledon, NHHS, Frances Holland and Queensgate, as well as the scope to transfer to either Kings Wimbledon or Westminster at sixth form.

If your child is more maths/science than English it is worth considering Latymer Upper. They have only been taking girls for about 6 years, and selection has proved much harder for prep schools to predict. They are hugely oversubscribed, so it is quite possible to get SPGS and not LU. Their maths exam has a reputation for being tricky (and is worth practicing) and they may take girls whose have something specific to offer but who are not the perfect all rounder. (In contrast an all-rounder might prefer G&L and the fact they offer IB.)The presence of boys and their great science facilities means the school has a real edge for girls who fit this profile. In addition their sports, music, art and drama facilities are easily as good any of the girls schools.

One of the points of a prep school is to prepare them for entrance into senior school. You should not need a tutor if these are the right schools for your daughter.

Why do you want her to go to either of these schools?

What does your prep school advise?

St Paul's really would prefer that your daughters are not coached, please! Please look at the specimen papers on website www.spgs.org/join-us/entry-procedure and if these seem way beyond your daughter's ability or potential, an application is unlikely to be the best use of her time and energy.

Thanks all, for your helpful responses. The idea is not to burden my dd with unnecessary coaching but to ensure that she is well prepared. I have a very demanding City job, which means that our nanny supervises my dd's daily homework. Maybe its the guilt but I thought of additional coaching (maybe once a week or fortnight at this stage) as a way of ensuring that she stays on top of things. Most websites and forums seem to suggest that girls are heavily coached for such tests. Does that only apply to girls from state primaries?

Also, re choice of school, I'd like her to try for a range of schools (not just SPG and GL). I plan to meet with her headmistress later this month and see what she thinks. Also, looking at specimen papers on the SPG website is a good idea. THanks again!

The reality is that most of the girls applying to these schools are coached - if not by a private tutor then by the parents. No matter how bright your child is, she would certainly benefit from extra help on how to solve tricky maths problems or comprehension questions.

Having just gone through this process myself I would definitely recommend doing english comprehension work every week from year 4. How to complete a really good comprehension can definitely be taught - its not just something which comes naturally. A lot of the same types of questions keep coming up and you can give your child strategies is they should use for each question type.

I don't agree with the idea "if your dd can't do these papers, its not the right school for her anyway". If she's half way bright you can teach her how to do these papers. Once you get in to these schools you find that there are girls with a great range of abilities. All girls at spgs are not childhood prodigies.

I agree that a good prep will prepare thoroughly. My first term in Y6 at my prep was spent effectively preparing for those exams, with past papers to do for homework etc.

You say that your nanny supervises DD's homework and maybe you're feeling a bit of guilt. Do you have any reason to believe that your nanny isn't up to scratch? Can your nanny do a little bit of extra 'coaching' or can you suggest activities that nanny could do with her to prepare her?

Either way Y4 is too early to consider formal tutoring and you should be guided by the school. They will give you a pretty honest assessment of her chances and whether you need to look at additional coaching/other schools.

I know everyone says you need additional tutoring but based on my experience that isn't true of everyone. It depends very much on input at home (whether from parents or nanny) and the attitude the school takes. Of course children who are guided on the best exam technique are going to perform better but that guidance doesn't need to come from external coaching.

Top academic schools have a down side as well as an upside.

If you do a reasonable amount of work and stay open to a full range of schools then the mania won't be passed on to the kids. If they are better suited to a nurturing environment of a less academic school then hammering them every day with work will be counter productive. The ones that like working get in with more ease than the ones who are pushed .

There is a lot of really good advice on this thread which I second. Over coaching is unfair on the child as it means they won't be doing important playing or non-academic stuff they enjoy and, if they get pushed in, might find the school too hardwork to enjoy.

If your daughter is at a prep school then she should be getting all she needs from the curriculum and, I'd hope, some exam practice and reasoning ability.

Our eldest (now year 6) is at a state primary on the standard national curriculum. We added in 10 hours of extra tuition to do some practise papers and learn some verbal reasoning. Two schools - two offers.

The stuff that I think helped much more than anything else was:

• making sure homework was done their best ability (kitchen table time with YOU, stop outsourcing to someone else)

• encouraging lots and lots of reading and creative writing (get them a library card and tell them they can go on their own to borrow books)

• take them to theatre, concerts, lectures and other "live" events to broaden their experience outside school and playdates

• answer every question as if it was from an adult, don't water it down, don't sugar coat it, don't shy away from detail

• let them play

• let them play

• let them play (did I mention that already)

Even if your DD is very academic she would benefit from learning some test techniques. But I would think her prep should be putting her through her paces in this regard else what on Earth are you paying for?