higher education - does it matter where - really?

[ThatVikRinA22]

not really worried but something i just read on another thread has made me wonder. the poster says she used to work in recruitment and knows the snobbery regarding which uni you got your degree from....

is this true?

my DS has special educational needs, has just done A levels and is starting a foundation degree. (not a foundation course - a foundation degree) several reasons for this - his college did not support his SENs and he got a bit lost in the system. he hasnt done brilliantly at A level despite getting excellent GCSE results. Also doing the foundation degree means he gets to live at home for 2 more years before going to complete the degree at uni for the 3rd year, when he can get a "top up" degree to make it a full Bsc hons in computer information systems. it would be from the university of lincoln.
he already works from home part time and picks up free lance work regularly, he also does article writing, all of which is paid work. he could put together quite a good portfolio of work, and he is a talented computer programmer, self taught and has been doing it since he was about 12.

is where he gets his degree from going to matter to prospective employers do you think?
i hadnt even considered this.

In many spheres where you went to Uni is one of the factors taken into consideration. Also the subject. Not all degrees were created equal.

In my experience this is true of law, finanace and publishing. No doubt there are other areas where this is true.

Basically, employers have so many candidates ( in the previous round, DH's law firm had thousands of applicants for trainess solicitors, from all round the world), they use class of degree, where it was from, and what it was in as a sifter.

I really don't know about IT stuff, though. Perhaps hands on experience counts for much more. Hopefully someone will come along with proper experience in that field so that you need not worry.

The redbrick universities plus Oxford and Cambridge are still seen as better but it does depend on the subject.

In my day Universities were for more trad courses and polys were for more technical and artistic courses and that appeared to work well as a good degree from a poly in the right subject was perfect for some degrees especially media. Now all colleges want to offer everything and I believe this has devalued certain subjects such as media studies.

If you are looking at future career prospects I would agree with Litchick where employers still look at where the degree was from. In certain industries there are favourites.

I would say that you do not have to go to Oxbridge for most jobs in my experience and we recently took on an Oxbridge candidate who had major prejudice against him at our company by the mostly non-degree senior execs and he actually had to prove himself more than most graduates to show he was down to earth and strong enough to cope in business.

It depends on the degree subject and what sort of job you want.

If you mean the other thread where the OP's sone is thinking of reading philosophy and history, which is about as far from vocational subjects as you can get, then I'd say yes it will make a big difference. Less so for other subjects, some of the ex-polys, say, are fantastic for some subjects. but for philosophy it would matter because it's so airy fairy (I read it at university, it's a lovely subject, but not very job-oriented), it'll be more crucial.

For a subject like IT, I don't think there is the same snobbery about which university you go to, it's more about whether the content of the course is a good match for the kind of job you are looking for. Plus, having hands-on experience and a portfolio of work will make him stand out from the crowd.

I work in IT, and wouldn't give any preference to a candidate because they happend to have gone to Oxbridge, it just has no relevance.

Depends entirely on what you are going to do with your degree. For some careers, it does matter, for others, it won't, or certainly won't matter to a significant extent.

I think the way things are going generally, there is a huge shift in attitude towards degrees anyway, and employers are going to be looking at broader skills, and also bright school leavers who are going through the less conventional routes into a career. Many young people just don't want the 20/30k of debt any more.

Yes it does matter - depending on the job

also current graduates will probably need to take further degrees such as masters or phds to stand out because of the stupid policy of trying to get everyone to university

I work in recruitment and we specifically target graduates with a 2.1 from top 20 universities. That's because 99% of our clients prefer those candidates.

I'm not saying whether that's 'right' or 'wrong', just that it is what it is. Other recruiters don't have the same specifications, but it shows that there is a percentage of companies that really do care.

It's not a case of Oxbridge vs. everyone else but the expectation from these employers that having completed a degree at a top 20 university means a certain amount of academic rigour, hard work and experience of research/analysis. Not always true, but there you go.

In summary, if you want to go into a good graduate scheme, any high-flying 'graduate' role, consultancy, etc, then going to a top university certainly isn't going to hurt. It's not a 'closed shop' but it certainly makes it easier.

There are also other exceptions. The top 20 Universities aren't the same for every subject, certainly not for specialist areas of IT. Some non top 20 universities have departments that are outstanding.

Some Universities have a very very good track record for getting their graduates into employment (eg. Surrey is often top for this).

There are also a lot of jobs which are not in big companies, small and medium firms tend to recruit very differently on much smaller budgets.

If your son is doing a foundation degree, I would look at his options for the top up degree. There are other options btw. For example places like the OU do take transfer credit, as certainly does Birkbeck College in London.

Let him do his foundation degree, adding to his portfolio of work. Keep investigating the options, and new ones open all the time. (Gove seems quite keen on students staying at home for at least part of their degree.)

A degree is not the beginning and end of things. Your son has a lot going for him outside of academic qualification.

MY DH read computer science at a "good" university and found it frustrating- it was too academic and not terribly practical. The languages they worked in were already out of date in industry. And with a 2:2 he would no longer get a job at his company.

The classification (at least a 2:1) will be more important than where the degree was gained, and keeping up with the experience so that he is using the latest languages is important.

Vicar - I remember your other post about your boy going to GeekCon. I regularly interview and hire graduates for programming jobs - and I don't care what uni they got their degree from. However going to GeekCon is a good reason to hire thim....

I always do a 3 part interview

• phone interview. To check if the speak English. ( Obviously an unbelievable number of candidates fail this part.)

• then a programming test. This is really, really, really important.

• then a general talking test to find out their attitude to work, teamwork etc, etc.

Now, I'm not saying I'm typical. There are many many different interview styles out there. But basically if he gets good grades his uni won't matter in the field of computers.

Basically computer programmers are by and large a very unsnobby and geeky bunch.

However, I only interview people who got at least a 2:1.....

And his portfolio of work done outside of his uni course will count for a huge amount come interview time.

Also, despite all the press, it is still really hard to find good programmers. Good programmers will never have any trouble getting a job.

(But he will need to have enough social skills to pass the interview....)

indigo i cant tell you how much better youve made me feel!

he will do the top up 3rd year - thats the plan anyway so he should end up with a full degree.

despite having aspergers he is very able socially. he is very amiable and articulate, and he isnt afraid of picking up a phone or skype or whatever and chatting away to prospective employers - thats how he picks up his free lance stuff.

and he is a very good little programmer. he is always doing things like writing bits and submitting them to big phone companies - he has just written one that switches your phone off silent if you ring it (he is always losing his phone and rings it to find it! no good if its on silent though!)

youve made me feel better about how he is getting this degree, thankyou.

I have been thinking about this too. My son was predicted B/C's so picked a uni based on this (Coventry) but he got AAB. Lucky (after reading this thread) he is going on to do IT so hopefully Coventry will be ok as long as he gets a 2:1 or higher??

Yes Manda. I really think in IT a 2:1 from any degree will get you interviews.

To me it's more important that he demonstrates enthusiasm for the subject. So having his own web page, or attending conferences like GeekCon are a good start. As are reading geeky blogs.

If he enjoys programming it will show in interview time and he will have no problem getting a job.

It is obviously a huge field, and there is room for a wide range of interests and personalities....

The people who struggle are the people who are just in it because it looked like a good career choice, rather than because they have a passion for it. :)

Yes, in IT a good degree (2:1 or better), some good hands-on experience (either at university or ideally outside it in summer jobs or personal side projects) and a good attitude are far more important than where the degree is from.

i work with some dinosaur medical consultants...after a particularly disparaging remark from one of them about me when I mentioned I wanted to do a PhD I said something like 'but I have a first class honours degree' to which she replies, 'yes but it is in nursing...'

suject matter counts as well as location.

for what it is worth I was accepted to do my PhD at Cambridge and instead went to Leicester because they have a better department for the kind of research I do...and Cambridge is full of the kind of snobbery that makes my blood boil.

I don't think it's fair to tar everyone at Cambridge with the same brush. Sure, there'll be some snobs there, just as there are snobs everywhere. The overwhelming majority of people at Cambridge are nice, normal people, probably running in horror from the snobs. To judge an entire city of people based on a small number of experiences is to make exactly the same mistake as that of the snobs themselves. If your son did decide that he wanted to apply to Cambridge for post-Grad study, perhaps, he shouldn't feel put off, or that he wouldn't fit in.

Anyway, wanted to confirm that IndigoBell is quite right. That's usually how people are recruited in IT, rather than a narrow focus on University, and there are far too few good programmers - people are desperate for talented programmers. People working in IT are also generally very accepting of people with Aspergers, and happy to fit around certain traits or behaviours.