Why don't ALL children have compulsory sign language workshops at school?

[swiperfox]

Please don't let this turn into a horrid thread - it's just something me and dp were talking about the other day after reading the threads about Something Special.

I personally think it would be a fantastic thing for children to learn. My Mum's cousin is profoundly deaf due to her mum having chickenpox when she was pg so I grew up knowing the alphabet and have never forgotten it and it's amazing how useful it has been to me ever since.

It's so easy to learn the basics, especially at a young age and would encourage children to learn about and accept children with special/other needs and would probably make the world a nicer place for those who need to use sign language, knowing that they aren't going to be confronted with people looking at them like they're stupid because they can't understand them.

I think that is a fantastic idea though maybe the school is already too busy trying to achieve the targets for more basic things as reading. However, I don't think the school is the only one that could teach them sign language, if you are really concerned about this you can teach your own children, there are plenty of book in the subject and you can start as early as you want (though you be lucky if they sign up befre being seven months old). We tried the basic signs with DS as a baby and it was fantastic, he could not speak but started signing about her basic needs (milk, food, more, don't touch, and gloves) before he was 1 yr old. Saved him a lot of crying too

I agree it would be a great thing for schools to do.

My kids are 2, 5 and 7 and they all love Something Special and have started to use the signs alot.

will all you something special lovers please email the bbc and complain about the price £80 for the series! Apparently because they're educational so only have a small number of potential purchasers.

My DS (5) has learned some sign language with his class as the school does have a child with special needs and therefore they taught all of the children some of the standard words. He came with me to a Tiny Talk lesson with DD (1) and could do most of the signs we did there really quick. Therefore I think it is an excellent idea. I also think it would help when they are older to use that with foreign language learning as the signs could be used to reinforce the language. I believe it is part of the communication programme for early years but am not a teacher so may be wrong.

jimjams - I complained, straight after first time you mentioned it Never heard back though. Also posted it on the grown up section of website.

80.00??????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Seriously????????/ Where do i complain?!

DD learned some signing at school as a lunchtime activity (they offer a range e.g. lego, knex, ballet, paper craft, etc). A few who had learned were in our Beavers group and every so often they'd sign something to each in their own 'secret' language

It irritates me there's no consistency in sign languages though and different ones seem to be appearing all the time e.g. I think even the baby sign classes offer different signs depending on which one you take up.

Where I live, they do!
In my town, all nurseries are being encouraged to do signing by the local sure start. Whilst some nurseries are better at it than others, I think its coming on board.

At my child's nursery, they all do 'sign a long', not sure which system it is, but the babies use it as baby sign, but there's a deaf child there, and he uses it too... so it means that he understands everything that all the other children are being told and the children all at least can communicate the basics with him. Its nice to see!

Great idea - wish dds school could do this - will ask if it could be possible.

souns pretty standard celia- although some will. are pecs used as well?

SueW- Re differnt signs
Makaton and signalong( and the varios baby signing courses) are all based on BSL.As BSl has been developed different 'dialects' have appeared and all the other groups have come from different areas so have some different signs.

I recently did a signalong course(Kent ) to compare with my BSL and the majority of signs were different to the BSL I have learnt(signers from Southern Scotland/Cumbria/Newcastle.
Apparently there is 9 different signs for toilet!(different dialects)

Also worth bearing in mind that they have different uses. BSL is a stand alone langauge. Makaton is used with learning disabled to back up a spoken language- it is not a language itself. American Makaton is different from UK makaton as well. Normally developing, hearing babies use different signs again. (again a different use). Another important part of the Makaton system is the symbols- although I think other symbol systems are more common.

This is interesting and I have nothing against people learning sign as a means of communicating with different groups but I also understand the idea of not teaching deaf children to sign. (my son is deaf and this is not a choice we had to make as he already had good language when diagnosed). The idea is that the children concentrate on learning to use their residual hearing, with digital aids and cochlear implants, this is really possible, I met some amazing people at summer school who were profoundly deaf, had degrees and knew no sign language. This as ever needs to be qualified, children with additional needs may need to use sign to overcome other difficulties.

Always problems with ms using pecs though Celia. For example when my son was in ms they wanted the ms kids to pass him sentence strips saying "I want train" and him to give them the train, Completely missing the point that my son has no concept of I - and if he was given that he would think "???? no I don't, I want a car" or whatever. I rang the SALT and got her to sort it out- but reallly children who can talk should talk (nothing wrong with receiving his PECS and then acting on his request though).

Gosh,that's very dodgy jimjams! Reminds me of a salt I was helping set up pECS. She came to me very exciteds one day saying 'X has given me a sentence strip saying 'I want a drink'!'

'Eh?'I answered 'but he can talk!'

One very red faced salt.........

PMSL

Well no-one in the school was PECS trained- so they tried, but really had no idea. If I told them they were doing something wrong it never went down very well so I took to ringing the SALT saying "quick get in there"- and they did (either the NHS or provate one would sort it out for me- thank god).

it is sooooo wonderful noww that he is in a school where they teach me things to do with PECS (eg countdown buttons) and I never have to worry that they are doing things wrong. His teacher has given presentations at conferences etc on PECS.

Oh that's great. In the wrong hands,PECS can go horribly wrong.
You are lucky to have such an on the ball teacher-shame there aren't more (salts and teachers).
Are you still going to the conference btw?
I may still be abroad so don't know if I can which I am annoyed about as they don't happen every year do they?

we're all booked up. - dh is going as well.

3/8teachers at our school are properly trained and they then cascade to the rest of us whilst the head is trying to arrange for 40 staff to get the appropriate training for les than £40,000 [SHOCK] i am actually on an inset for PECS on Friday .
Sorry I forgot to differentiate between differnt sign languages.Makaton Signalong and (I presume) baby sign lang are to support speech where as BSL is a language in its own right with a differnt structure.
Re Symbols- we use writing with symbols at the moment but are changing to widgit we also ise a lot of photos with PECS.

We were taught sign language (no idea what sort- where you spell the letters on your hands) in 2nd year Juniors (would be Y4 now) back in 1972 as part of a series of lessons on Helen Keller. It has stayed with me.

BUT there was a boy in DS3s reception class with DS and severe learning difficulties, and the whole class had to learn Makaton. They spent so much time on it that they didn't actually do anything else! By the time they went into Y1, the whole class was way behind what they should have been doing. There is only a limited time available at school between all the stuff they have to do, and TBH I didn't feel this was time well spent. While I remember the signing I was taught 23 years on, DS3 has completely forgotten the Makaton after only 8 years. Perhaps 8-9 is a better age to learn it than 4-5?

My son's ex school was awful, but one thing they did do was teach sign language as their second language. That was great.
I have been watching secons special with my DS3, who can understand what I say but doesn't seem to want to say much back (he is 2, there is a family history of hearing loss). I have been signing with him (copying Justin) as we watch the TV, and I say the words too. he seems to respond better like that and even tried to say a few words today!! With the signs alongside.

DS1 has AS, and DS2 has glue ear and subsequent speech dificulties. it's hard to be heard here, and even harder to be understood: signs are so much simpler!

oh gosh yes celia- good idea. Although ime of mainstream people who don't know what they are doing with PECS (but think they do) can be very dangerous indeed. Would hve to be carefully thought out, but would be workable with a motivated teacher (and the right support).