state vs paid - conversations are greek to me; translations welcome

[xaj]

Although English is my first language, the differences in the jargon and systems are so different between the US and UK that when I read some of the message boards I'm lost.

For example I was reading a message regarding paying for tuition for primary school. Most of the respondents recommended going to state primary, getting tutors and then going to a prep or grammar school later.

2 of the respondents replied:

"And I disagree with going for secondary- the formative years are surely most important.
Choose a grammar school area, send them to a pre-prep/prep school with excellent 11+ results, and save on the cost of 7 years' secondary education "

and

"Be careful if you decide to go for prep school in the hope of grammar school entry. If they don't pass the 11+ and you have spent all the budget on prep fees, you will be stuck with what are in effect secondary moderns(if you live in a totally selective area}."

Can someone please decode this for me? I apologize in advance for being such a noob.

(state) primary - free, state funded 4-11 years
(state) secondary - state funded 11-16/18 years
prep - private up to 13 years
private secondary - 13+ private
public - even more expensive than private
grammar- state funded but with entrance exam
secondary modern - in the olden days, all pupils used to have to do the 11+ exam (now only a few areas of the country do this, see grammar schools above). Those who passed went to grammar school, those who didn't went to secondary modern.

Hope this helps.

I'll give it a try:

Pre-prep (Reception to year 2) and prep (year 3 - year 6 (for 11+) or year 8 (for common entrance) are private schools. The state school equivalents would be infants school for pre-prep only, and junior or primary for other pre-prep/prep combinations.

Secondary private schools start at either age 11 (traditional for girls) or 13 (boys), but in practice you find many schools offering entry at both ages. For age 11 entry, the pupil would sit an exam known as the 11+ (set and marked by individual schools), and at age 13 the Common Entrance exam ( set centrally, but marked by the individual school).

In the state sector, aside from a few areas which have middle schools, pupils transfer at 11). In most parts of the country, they go to comprehensive (ie mixed ability) intake schools. Some comprehensives are allowed to select a percentage of their pupils for specific ability/potential (not necessarily academic).

In some areas however there are grammar schools. These are state schools which fully select on academic ability, and use a selection exam called 11+. The remaining schools in that area were in the past known as secondary moderns. Nowadays, they are known as comprehensives; so the reference to the old term secondary mod is highlighting the point that these are not the mixed ability schools you would expect to find in truly comprehensive areas as the brightest (or most diligent?) pupils

Does that help?

Sorry, cross post!

Also apologies for managing to miss off the last bit of a sentence: should be ".... as the brightest (or most diligent?) pupils have been creamed off".

Thanks loopyloops and onimolap - that's very helpful. I think I've got a handle on it now.

Just to add a spanner - some areas in England have 12+ (like 11+ state), but the children move end of Yr 7, as opposed to Yr 6.

And one other spanner to add:
In some areas there are private schools (independent schools), whose name includes the word 'Grammar'!

So, for instance, Stockport Grammar School is a fee-paying school, (not a selective state school.)
Similarly, The Grammar School at Leeds, Manchester Grammar School, Bradford Grammar School, and many many others.

....and a last spanner:

Some schools are called Grammar but are comprehensive state schools (ie used to be selective but have abandoned that and accept everyone at 11) - (harrogate grammar, tadcaster grammar, etc).

Good luck, I know how overwhelming it is as I was in your same boat!!!!

Another source of confusion is the US use of some words.

Public school (US) = a state school; Public School (UK) = an exclusive set of private schools, heads belong to the Headmasters and Headmistresses conference.

Prep school (US) = preparatory for UNIVERSITY, so 14-18 ish; Prep school (UK) = preparatory for PUBLIC SCHOOL so 7-13

(Before 7 boys were educated at home, but now go to pre-prep schools).

Grammar schools can be worse as in the US sometimes they have/are used for elementary schools.

mummytime- how long back are you thinking of for that? (age 7...)
Just curious- my father went off to board at age 5, in 1938.

montmatre - mine too. I think some families, particularly London based ones, saw the war coming and packed their children off to board at a very young age to get them out of harms way. Actually, I think my Dad's London based day prep-school packed up and moved to the countryside, lock stock and pupil, so effectively all the kids became boarders at a very young age.

spooky! That's what happened with my fathers'... to Wales I believe, though I think his was a boarding school that moved en masse from the area they were in due to the targeting of nearby factories.

@cat64 here's a little about schools in the U.S.

In general there are two types, public and private (and now Charter schools but I'll address those further on)

Public schools are free and open to everyone. School is mandatory after age 5, and your child must be 5 by September to be enrolled in Kindergarten. Depending upon the school and district, some Kindergartens are half or full day.

Some cities/schools offer preschool at age 4 for half a day but this isn't universal.

In general - each type of school works like the following regardless of public/private etc:

Children attend Kindergarten then 1-12th grades, K-4 is usually at an elementary school (primary school) then comes middle school which is generally 5-8th grades, then highschool, which is 9-12th or breaks down into Freshman, Sophomore, Junior, Senior.

Juniors and Seniors take the ACT which is a standardized test usually used for in-state Universities and in their Senior year, the SAT, which is a standardized test used for entrance to all Universities. Often, students in the 11,12th grades also take AP classes (Advanced Placement) which are essentially college classes that after the class you can take a test and your score determines how many college credits you have in that subject - so it's possible to start University with a number of credits or even 1 or 2 years into a degree program.

Here if you live in a catchment area of a public school, you are automatically admitted if it's your local school.

In large cities like Chicago, we also have public Magnet schools - for those there is both a testing and lottery system to see who gets admitted.

Private schools often have a wait list, and use entrance tests and require tuition fees. These can be college prep, religious based or focused around a theme like the arts. Fees for these range but are comparable to the UK.

One thing to note in the US is that even though your child can go to their local free public school - you might not want them to. For example, our local school here in Chicago is abysmal, so we'd enrolled our children in a private fee paying school.

An alternative that has become more popular in the last few years are Charter Schools. Basically a business comes in and sets up a school - and runs it like a business. These can be public (free) or private (fee paying)

Thank you for this thread! I am English but got schooled all over the place, including a bit of England, a bit of America and a bit of Belgium, so I've NEVER managed to figure out what everyone is talking about re. English schools! (I think I've understood American ones- bit more staightforward in the terminology used)
I think I've been too embarressed to ask but this all makes it very clear. Yeah!! I've learnt something new today!