Payment dispute outside of eBay

[AlexinMotherland]

I’ve been buying and selling on eBay on and off for many years but I’ve never had an issue with a buyer until now so I don’t know much about the process.

I sold a dress last week that was brand new with tags and in perfect condition (I’m extremely fussy so know it was in perfect condition!) but as soon as I marked it as dispatched the buyer decided they needed it by today. They sent quite a few messages about it which made me suspicious they were hoping to say it didn’t arrive in time. But it was tracked so as soon as it’s arrived today they’ve filed a dispute asking for £22 back out of the £40 price because there’s ‘make up on the dress’

The message I received from eBay said ‘xxx has filed a payment dispute outside of eBay about an order that was placed on 08 Jul, 2021. This means the buyer has disputed a charge directly with their payment provider.’ What does that mean, charged it back through their bank? And why would someone do that rather than use eBay’s resolution process?

I sent one of my photos of the dress as asked but haven’t been shown any photos of the imaginary make up stain. I suspect they’ll just wear it then add their own for the photo but where does that leave me? Can they just keep it for less than half the value or do they have to return it to get a full refund instead?

Sorry for the long post, I just don’t know how I can prove anything and it’s really frustrating if the buyer will get away with it.

Sounds like you have a dishonest buyer who is trying to get a refund and keep the dress as well. Unfortunately they do exist.

I had a buyer in the USA whose package was delayed by customs. She filed an Ebay dispute because she wasnt willing to wait for it so I had to refund her. Now the package has been delivered so she has the item and the payment. I wrote to he asking her to refund the payment to my Paypal account as she cannot keep both. She did not reply. Now I have written to say that she has a debt with me and unless she either returns the item or pays for it I will place the matter in the hands of a debt collection agency in her country and trash her credit rating.

Having dealt with customers in the USA for some years I have several redneck DCAs I use. The kind who are pretty ruthless about collecting small debts. Americans cannot afford to have their credit rating trashed as if affects their right to ANY insurance.

I find you have less and less rights as a seller on eBay now.

Just to spite her, I'd offer to pay the postage for her to return it. And say your'll then offer her a full refund.

This is a compromise for you. Which your'll hate. But she'll hate it even more, and that will be your only satisfaction here.

Thank you for the replies, I hope your dishonest buyer pays up @memberofthewedding

It must be hard to prove who is in the right but shocking eBay seem to just go with the buyer regardless from what I’ve read?

There was a box to tick on the form to say I would accept a return but it said something like ‘you may be able to have the item returned’ which I thought sounded like they could just refuse and get a refund?

Anyway if their event was last night as they said, they would have got what they wanted and worn it so all I’ll get back is a used, stained dress for the price of two lots of postage!

I’ve had the photos from them now actually hilarious how poorly drawn on the lines of make up are and all in inconspicuous places so it doesn’t ruin ‘their’ dress. Who has lines of make up on their clothes?!

The thing is I’ve googled the username to see who this person is and he seems like a really decent, professional, older man, the messages I’ve received have been in poor, text-speak style English. I wonder if it’s a child using their parents account to try it on.

Just tell them to return it for a full refund. You’ll be down £3 for a returns label, but it’s better than the £22 they’re asking for. Then make sure you block them from buying any of your items again.

Or the account has been hacked? Did you despatch it to the buyers address as listed on ebay.

Can you phone the person? It used to give their phone number years ago when I had a dispute. That way you’d find out if the person is indeed the person or their teen chancer child trying to pull a fast one?

Check their feedback. Have they bought anything else recently that may fuel your suspicions, like shoes and handbag or whatever? Be interesting to see if they’d raised complaints about them too but perhaps eBay wouldn’t tell you.

I did wonder whether people can hack eBay accounts because they’ve got a 0% rating and all their transactions were over 12 months ago? I just sent it to the address on the order, is there a way to compare it to the one on the account?

EBay accounts that have been left unused for 6 months or more are routinely targeted by hackers, raise a concern with customer services and let them look into it.

I spoke to CS at eBay and they said the bank will probably side with the buyer and I’ll then be charged a £14 fee for disputing it. They said they would’ve advised me to accept the refund so I wasn’t out of pocket, like the dress didn’t cost me money in the first place! I never knew eBay was so biased against sellers, I don’t think I’ll continue selling on there after this.

They said they’d report the buyer to check them out but not sure what that means. Hopefully they’ll get found out if they try it again with someone else at least.

What so they don’t have to send it back? Sod that. I’d rather they returned it for a full refund. As a pp has said then at least you’re not out as much as you will be if they get to keep the item.

So is there a phone number you can contact them on?

I’m thinking if it’s a kid that’s hacked the parents account (linked to parents bank card) then they will be hoping for a full refund before the parent notices the moneys come out of his account.

So if you can speak to or even write to (as in Royal Mail not email) the person that may be another opportunity to suss out whether the owner of the account knows what’s going on?

I’m disgusted for you that someone thinks this behaviour is acceptable.

If you get it back and it no longer has tags then it’s further proof that the buyer wore it and damaged it themselves. Not that eBay seem to care.

I’ve told them they can return it with the tags still on for a full refund. They haven’t responded but they have changed the amount in dispute to the full amount they paid including postage so I don’t know if they’re just getting more greedy or are actually going to send it back. Opening the dispute outside of eBay gives the seller no way of questioning anything but you would think it would seem suspicious that they suddenly want more back.

I can’t see a phone number on the account, only their address from the order. They’re actually from a very tiny village which I often visit and know people from so I wouldn’t be surprised if I see them in the local pub at some point wearing the unstained dress

I thought that @Elieza or they asked to buy a much cheaper dress?

I could technically speak to them online as they have used the same username all over the internet (Twitter etc) or even offer one of my friends to pick the dress up in person but feel like that’s overstepping the mark?

They are either bluffing to try and get you to panic and let them keep it or they are about to send it back. Better they do that. Check the tags carefully btw to see they are not glued back onto the plastic thread they were cut off of! If it were me I’d video the whole opening of the parcel with closeups so you can see it’s sealed on all sides and it’s their parcel. If you taking the dress out and close-up of the tags and everywhere like the pits inside out looking for deodorant marks etc. Film it all. Then they can’t claim you sabotaged it as they sent it back to you unworn with tags on. You will clearly see they did not. It’s all evidence. Whether it will be of use or not who knows. But at least you will have it in case you need it. They are total chancers. Play them at their own game.

PS if your friend picks it up then they could say she took the tags off or whatever so I’d leave it up to the post and ask them to send 2nd class recorded for which you will pay.

I don’t know if it’s worth contacting the Twitter etc as if the guy is not IT literate it could be them posting under his user name there too.

You have his address so you could try going online to 192.com to see if they have a phone number for him.

It will cost you a couple of quid but if he’s ever had an old bt phone number it can be listed at no charge. It might be worth a look. The site is good as I’ve used it before but not for ages so not sure what all is on it nowadays.

It just seems weird some guys bought a dress and then tried to return it for a spurious reason. Just the fact he’s a guy. It’ll tell you on 192.com what age he is (if he’s on it or was on it years ago) so that may give you a clue to the ages of his daughters, who I presume are behind this shit.

The trouble with the tag is because it was one of the premium ranges it had one of those tags just tied on with ribbon so they could have easily removed and replaced it, although if their make up adding skills are anything to go by they won’t be smart enough for that!

Good idea taking a video, I don’t get a right of reply with their bank but I guess there’s nothing to stop me opening my own case for the additional eBay fees I’ll incur.

I wouldn’t actually get my friend to pick it up but their response to the suggestion would be interesting! The only thing stopping me is the possibility they’ll claim it was picked up when it wasn’t.

I think it is him on social media just from the content and tone of voice but don’t really want him seeing my personal stuff if he is dodgy.

‘He’ told me it was for his daughter’s prom (when he was trying to say it wouldn’t come on time) but his daughters seem to be at uni (in another area) and working so it doesn’t add up at all and you’d think they’d know better as those ages!

Is it in a large size? Perhaps he’s a cross dresser or something and it’s for him but he’s trying to keep it secret. Not that I have anything against cross dressing, only against chancers trying to pull a fast one. I still can’t fathom what’s going on. It’s very weird.

No but it is a size 10 from a high street shop with less than generous sizing absolutely why I had to sell it! so it is possible.

They’ve said they’ve posted it back now, dreading to see what arrives!

Yeah get your phone ready to video the grand unveiling!

It arrived today, sent special delivery so another £7+ they’ll probably expect back!

It had a few threads hanging that I don’t remember being there before and I think the tags have been removed/reattached but it didn’t smell of perfume/aftershave so pleasantly surprised.

The writing on the envelope definitely didn’t look like that of an adult and the make up was 100% drawn on so the mystery remains.

I tried to refund on eBay and the option isn’t there as the case is external do not sure what to do next.

Did you ask them to return it by second class recorded and they chose special? If so I’d only pay the cost I’d expected. Which should be around three quid I’d think but you can check.

I’d still be looking to speak to the person who holds the account. The whole thing smacks of kids telling lies to their father the account holder and him probably having no idea what’s going on. They probably got him to buy a party outfit, decided they didn’t like it as much as something else, the father cracked up and say no you’ve got a dress already, they hacked his account so they could get it anyway, looked for refunds so he wouldn’t notice the money missing from his account etc. Dodgy.

They probably wore and washed it and that’s why it doesn’t smell. Then reapplied the makeup and the tags.
Does the makeup mark look the exact same as the photo? I think you’ll find it doesn’t.

Is the senders address and name on it, is it a woman’s name or the girls name? Look up (on Royal Mail online presumably) the special delivery reference if it’s not on it. Just curious to see if they’ve slipped up.

Write to the man by post as the presumably won’t think to open his snail mail and you can tell him if your concerns that something fishy is going on.

Not sure re how to refund as I’ve only used PayPal but bumping for you in case anyone else knows. If not you can always look up ebays advice.

At least you can wash the dress and see if the makeup comes out, which it will.

I think you can block people from bidding on your stuff on eBay. Not sure how but someone will know.

I hate chancing bastards. People like that make my blood boil. You can tell I’m gunning for them….

@AlexinMotherland

It arrived today, sent special delivery so another £7+ they’ll probably expect back!

It had a few threads hanging that I don’t remember being there before and I think the tags have been removed/reattached but it didn’t smell of perfume/aftershave so pleasantly surprised.

The writing on the envelope definitely didn’t look like that of an adult and the make up was 100% drawn on so the mystery remains.

I tried to refund on eBay and the option isn’t there as the case is external do not sure what to do next.

You can’t process the claimed refund in eBay because they haven’t followed the process, it will have been a chargeback on the card

Compare the pictures you were sent to what has been returned, and if possible compare your original pictures for the threads etc

Contact eBay with what you have found, and confirm the status of the chargeback ….. and don’t offer to refund the extra postage. If you have already agreed to pay their postage then aim to only cover the level agreed (if there was an agreed type of postage)

I didn’t mention which postage to use or that I would pay for it, just assumed they would wait for a label if they agreed to return it. Not sure where that leaves me, whether it’s my responsibility or not?

Seems odd to me that someone would choose the most expensive option, special by 1pm, makes me think it was a child getting upsold it by post office staff maybe?

I can’t see the make up or threads on my photos but it is possible it’s because I had it lying down, although I’m sure I would’ve noticed them before and it’s strange the buyer didn’t use them as an excuse too.

There was no name on the package, just their return address but that’s a good idea, I’ll try tracking the number later.

Not sure how to relist the dress now, wash it and sell as second hand or list as new but showing the stains they’ve added? Such a shame as it really is a beautiful dress!

Thank you for all the advice/having my back! These people ruin platforms like eBay for everyone.

@AlexinMotherland

I didn’t mention which postage to use or that I would pay for it, just assumed they would wait for a label if they agreed to return it. Not sure where that leaves me, whether it’s my responsibility or not?

Seems odd to me that someone would choose the most expensive option, special by 1pm, makes me think it was a child getting upsold it by post office staff maybe?

I can’t see the make up or threads on my photos but it is possible it’s because I had it lying down, although I’m sure I would’ve noticed them before and it’s strange the buyer didn’t use them as an excuse too.

There was no name on the package, just their return address but that’s a good idea, I’ll try tracking the number later.

Not sure how to relist the dress now, wash it and sell as second hand or list as new but showing the stains they’ve added? Such a shame as it really is a beautiful dress!

Thank you for all the advice/having my back! These people ruin platforms like eBay for everyone.

With that then, don’t give them any extra for the return postage

If they had used the eBay returns process you could have offered a pre paid label, or the eBay process can generate their own ‘free’ label and deduct that from you

This still wouldn’t have helped in this situation but check the terms that are ticked when you set up an advert and what you put in the description about returns.

I always have mine set to ‘no returns’ and will then deal with people accordingly, which has included accepting returns at my expense or their expense depending on circumstances.

I have mine set to no returns too @Tommika, do you add the same in the description or other terms as well?

@AlexinMotherland

I have mine set to no returns too *@Tommika*, do you add the same in the description or other terms as well?

I have done, but routinely I don’t put it in the description

For a period of time the eBay app was changing my ‘returns policy’ tick boxes, depending on the item I will occasionally add comments