'No PayPal' for high value item. Dodgy??

[BeforetheFlood]

I've been using eBay for years but only for buying and selling clothing and the odd bit of household stuff, never anything of high value. However, we've found a big item we've been looking for for a while at what seems to be a really good price. (Think caravan, or similar...)

Seller has a feedback rating of over 200, but no percentage is visible (or, it shows as 0%) as none of the feedback is from the last 12 months. When you look all of it is from a different (European) country, and is in that language. All feedback is positive, but only one of the ratings is for selling and the rest are for buying. So feedback history is no help here at all.

The thing that is putting me off snapping up this item, which is listed at over £3k, is that the buyer has stated no PayPal. Half payment upfront via BACS, half on delivery. The item does seem a good bargain, and the half and half payment initially reassured me, but I'm thinking that this person could just collect a few bank transfers of 1.5k from interested buyers before disappearing completely and leaving people with no way of recouping the money.

Could any more experienced and savvy ebayers tell me if I'm being overly paranoid, or if we should just give this tempting item a swerve? Is there any way of avoiding being scammed? Can I check with eBay that the seller is genuine? (the fact that his messages come back in English but with the subject line in the same language as his previous feedback is also slightly worrying me! Item is stated as being in the UK.) Thanks if you've read this far!

Someone more knowledgeable will be along im sure but from a seller's point of view if you take PayPal for items like this then you're open to people using PayPal's very buyer orientated guarantee to swipe their money back and keep the item so they're probably just trying to protect themselves. I don't think I'd want to transfer by BACS though, might be better to go and have a look at the item then offer the full payment if you want it.

"a really good price" "a good bargain"
almost no feedback history
a high cost item you have never seen
....
nah.

I don’t think PayPal offers the seller much (or any) protection for items that need to be collected in person. It’s not like they can provide a tracking number for the postal delivery of a caravan if you open up an item not received case. So the lack of PayPal for a collection item is fine.

In regard to you being scammed, is this a price that’s too good to be true for the item? I certainly wouldn’t pay anything up front as you need to examine the item before deciding whether to purchase, and even then flaws may not be apparent until later (eg if the caravan breaks down or is inspected at a garage).

If you’re insistent on going ahead, I would pay via credit card where possible as you have S75 rights if you do get scammed.

If I was a seller for a car or a caravan I wouldn’t accept PayPal. A buyer can turn round and say they never got it, or it’s not as described and PayPal will probably refund the money. So a scammer could scam the seller.

But no way would I pay any money before seeing anything.

I’ve bought camper vans and sold campervans online before, don’t think any were via eBay though. I’d go and look at it, always at a home address. Pay cash for a deposit and get a written receipt and then transfer the rest of the money. I guess an element of trust was there. But if anything seemed dodgy I walked away. I drove 2 hours to see a van once and realised it was parked in a village hall carpark and the seller didn’t even seem to live in that village. I walked away within ten seconds, didn’t even bother looking at the van.

Trust your instinct.

Thanks for your replies everyone. Wise, wise words. Unfortunately the item is in the north of Scotland and we are in the midlands - but now that no longer seems like such a coincidence. (Not us being in the Midlands but the inconvenient-for-most-people Scotland location...) It doesn't look very good, does it?

I think I may contact him to suggest we pay a smallish deposit and delivery charge on Paypal, and then if the item doesn't ever appear we can claim that back. If it does we'll pay the larger balance in cash. That seems like the only way to meet both parties' needs? Or maybe just going back to the search trail is the best option. (It's not like I have much else to do on a lockdown Sunday afternoon!)

Thanks again - this is a bit of a dream we're chasing and I don't want to lose out by being too timid, but we really can't afford to lose the money either.

I wouldn't trust this at all.

I certainly wouldn't be sending anyone such a large deposit for anything I hadn't even seen

Well dodgy!

I think cash on collection is the only way to pay for large and expensive items that can’t be posted. The seller doesn’t lose lots of money to PayPal fees or put themselves at risk of losing everything via a PayPal refund. And the buyer gets to inspect the item before they part with their cash.

Obviously if there are other red flags, don’t bother with it!

No feedback in the last 12 months and previous feedback all in a foreign language whereas seller now apparently in the UK suggests a possible hacked account.

If it's a 'really good price' think about why that might be? Why would someone sell a vehicle for significantly below the market rate? It's most likely because they want to entice sellers who'll be prepared to send money without seeing the item in person (because it's oh-so-unfortunately located in the wilds of nowhere).

Don't send them any money unless you want to lose your cash. Find a vehicle you can inspect in person before paying anything over at all.

Absolutely don’t do it!!

It's common to ask for a deposit via PayPal for something high value but then refund it when the total is paid by cash or BACS. PayPal can easily be refunded by the buyer so shouldn't be accepted if selling in person, however a BACS deposit is not ok as you have no way of getting that back if they are fake

You have talked sense into me, wise mumsnetters! Just writing it all down and seeing all those red flags was a revelation and your input is incredibly valuable (literally - you just saved me from losing 3k!) Thank you - your time and wisdom is very much appreciated.

No way. The only time no PayPal is acceptable is if you are collecting the item. Never ever send money without seeing the item and checking it out in person first.

Saw this and thought of you! www.theguardian.com/money/2020/may/04/fraudsters-use-covid-lockdown-to-scam-motorhome-buyers

😮 Small!

Thanks for the link. I'm now thinking that leaving well alone isn't enough and I should maybe contact eBay to have a look at it. I'd hate for anyone to be taken in.

I would, BeforetheFlood - it does seem like a textbook example of what's in that article and it could stop others being scammed.