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Original poster

VAT on an ebay item

28 replies

Flibbertyjibbet · 14/08/2007 18:25

I just won an item for 49p with £2.99 shipping and handling (which I did think was a lot for a blow up nemo pool toy).
I get the invoice for £3.48, go to pay by paypal, and 41p vat has been added on to the total. I go back to the item, can't see any reference to vat, then email seller and ask for re-invoice as its charged me vat.
Just got a reply to say that sorry its not her rules its government.
The VAT bit is in the smallest print right at the bottom of the listing, under the postage details etc. Is this fair?
Also, is it right to be charged VAT on the postage element as postage doesn't have vat on.
I am very annoyed even though its only a small bit of money on a little item and feel like risking a bad feedback and non paying bidder strike as the seller didn't make the vat bit clear so I would leave bad feedback for them anyway.
Any ideas?

OP posts:
Original poster
Flibbertyjibbet · 14/08/2007 18:27

I have never been charged vat on anything on ebay before, always assumed that if a seller was vat registered then it would be included in the price of the item.

OP posts:
sixlostmonkeys · 14/08/2007 18:28

They are allowed to do this (if they are VAT reg) and even tho it was small print they did actually advise of it on the listings.
Not sure about the postage element tho

SlightlyMadSpider · 14/08/2007 18:29

I wouldn't have thought she can ask you to pay VAT on the postage.

In any case she must be making a huge turnover on her ebay sales if she is VAT registered. I think the UK threshold is about £75K per year (although I am not sure about that either)

meandmyflyingmachine · 14/08/2007 18:29

We bought something like this recently. But we did see that VAT wasn't included and bid accordingly. If it was on the listing, then you could comment that it should be more clear, but I shouldn't think they've actually broken any rules.

Original poster
Flibbertyjibbet · 14/08/2007 18:40

The item had loads and loads of information about payments etc in very large letters in the body of the item description. The bit about vat was right right right at the bottom even past the details about postage rates, I can't say I ever look that far on an item as the postage is always detailed at the top.
I just think the seller is misleading not putting information referring to a price increase at the invoice stage, in with all her other information!
The vat threshold is I think £65k. although you can voluntarily register for it below that.
Anyone know the position on postage?

OP posts:
Pixiefish · 14/08/2007 18:45

If she is Vat registered ( the threshold isn't 75k pa btw its 64k)
then she has to charge Vat.

Dh is Vat registered but its included in the price he gets on ebay But some sellers add it afterwards. She should have made it clear that the price was plus and not including vat in her listing. If it's there- even in small print then you'll have to pay it.

Vat is chargeable on postage as well if the company is vat registered

Tinker · 14/08/2007 18:48

Here might help

Original poster
Flibbertyjibbet · 14/08/2007 18:54

I just checked her feedback, about 1 in 15 or 20 is neutral or neg, most saying that the vat bit should be made clearer, and quite a few saying that the postage is very high compared to the value of the actual stamps used, so she is overcharging on postage then adding vat on so that the vat becomes disproportionate compared to the price of the item.
She's got an awful lot of non paying bidders to, I assume for the same reason as me.
She is selling retail fgs, you don't go into a shop and see a price on a tag then get told a higher price when you take it to the till!
I am going to risk a neg feedback, if anyone checks they can see that I have over 300 positives and she has a ton of negs and neutrals all for the same reason that i am going to give.
Then I will email ebay and tell them that this person is really not making the vat bit clear and thus misleading customers.
I know its only a 49p item but I am a real stikler for 'its the principle of the thing' so she aint having my £4.50 to put a £1 stamp on a 49p nemo.
Sorry kids you will have to make do with a beachball.

OP posts:
zippitippitoes · 14/08/2007 19:11

if nshe is vat registered then vat is chargeable on the postage becaus eit becomes a service ie you are not purchasing a stamp but a vatable service

that said she should have her vat registration number and company address on the invoice

Peachy · 14/08/2007 19:14

Make sure her VAT reg and the total is shown on the receipt 9to make sure she pputs through uer books)

IIRC the threshold is compulsory registration- poeple can register under that (used to work in VAT office but a very long time ago so may be wrong or rules changed)

Peachy · 14/08/2007 19:16

she is overcharging on postage then adding vat on so that the vat becomes disproportionate compared to the price of the item.

It may be she is including the price of packaging etc- Dh does this (although doesn't charge VAT) in his p&P, people complain but at the end of the day its a cost his business ahs to fork out. He's completely staright about the actual costs.

If its a disproportionate amount, contact your local Vat office.

Original poster
Flibbertyjibbet · 14/08/2007 19:40

I do understand that vat is a legal cost, what I am objecting to is that (I got it wrong in my op) that 61p has been added as VAT to an item that was 49p!
And I understand about vat on p&p but have weighed another of my kids blow up toys and it would be £1.20 postage max, and I can't see a pool toy taking £1.80 worth of envelopes etc!
Its the principle that if you are charging vat on top, it should be stated as clearly as all your other terms and conditions, she has 1 inch high letters telling us about how we have to pay in 7 days or get bad feedback etc, no returns, etc etc but the bit about vat is right at the bottom of the whole listing - not in the item details part - and its in print smaller than this. Now that I call deceitful.
I just wanted to check with you lot about vat on P&P, as its legal then I shall just not pay for the item. I'll just wait and see what nasty neg she leaves me, yes she is one of those.

OP posts:
Original poster
Flibbertyjibbet · 14/08/2007 19:46

Thanks Peachy, have just emailed to ask for her vat reg number as its not on the invoice.

Even if she's got one I don't want the item, just being mischevious

OP posts:
sixlostmonkeys · 14/08/2007 20:22

I know you admit to just being mischievous, but to be honest you were aware of the P&P charges before bidding and it's not really on to complain now.
Even if the packaging part is £1.80 even ebay wouldn't class this as too high or fee avoidance. If it is a company - which considering the fact they are VAT reg it probably is, then they probably have to pay someone to package etc.

All in all you will be getting something delivered to your door for £4 and I doubt there are many other places where you could get this.

Although the mention of VAT is in small print the fact remains that it is there for all to read prior to bidding. They probably don't consider it important to list any bigger as VAT is common every day stuff to them. If you go into a trade warehouse the VAT is always in smaller print - I assume people in trade consider that customers are simply aware of the VAT element.

Original poster
Flibbertyjibbet · 14/08/2007 20:34

Oh yes I know what the P&P was, and I thought £3.49 was ok for the item delivered to my door. Its just that the p&p is actually about 53p more cos she chooses to add vat on at the end and not have it included.
I object to having an extra charge hidden in the small print and the bulk of that charge being added to the postage cos the item was so cheap.
No doubt she is hoping that I will think 'oh its only £4' but tis the principle I am afraid.
BTW she responded to my request for vat reg number by saying that when I receive my item I will receive a vat invoice, but she hasn't given me her vat number so I am starting to doubt she has one and won't care about it once she has my money.

OP posts:
meandmyflyingmachine · 14/08/2007 20:41

I think just not paying wouldn't really be right. The info was there. You didn't read it.

sixlostmonkeys · 14/08/2007 20:46

but nothing was really hidden was it? She wrote it and all the buyer has to do is read it.
From what i understand she hasn't broken any rules yet she is about to get a neg.
Also, if you fail to pay she will get her fees back and you will receive a strike

Original poster
Flibbertyjibbet · 14/08/2007 20:50

The info was very small right at the bottom of the listing. Not in with all the other important information in the listing such as what criteria she uses to give bad feedback. I would have thought something that adds 17.5% on to the value of not just the item but the p&p as well would be important enough to place in a position likely to be spotted.
She has a lot of other people who haven't paid, a lot of people who paid but left bad or neutral feedback about not making the vat clearly visible in the listing. If I got feedback for months on end saying that something I was charging for was not made clear until I'm actually looking at the invoice on paypal (ie it doesn't even show on the total when you press pay it now)then I would make sure it was very visible, or I would include it in the charges shown, as everyone else on ebay seems to do!
I will let her know that I am not paying, and why. If she can't give me her vat reg number then no way am I paying vat.

OP posts:
Original poster
Flibbertyjibbet · 14/08/2007 20:54

cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200140120939&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=010
sorry I am really irritated with this now.
Have a look for the Vat on this and tell me if its clearly stated TO SOMEONE NOT EXPECTING VAT and thus not expecting to have to scour the small print looking for extra charges appearing when I'm in paypal.

OP posts:
sixlostmonkeys · 14/08/2007 20:54

if the feedback contains many comments about the VAT not being clearly visible surely this was another clue before you bid?
Sorry, but I don't understand now....

sixlostmonkeys · 14/08/2007 20:57

it says at the top of the listing Visit my eBay Shop:love 2 Buy
Our VAT Exclusive policy

Original poster
Flibbertyjibbet · 14/08/2007 21:07

Silly me for being trusting of someone selling kids pool toys that when I saw the item with 3 mins left I didn't check all feedback.
You were looking at the listing from the point of view of someone looking for vat info. I still maintain that someone not expecting to be charged vat on top at the end would not have been expected to see a tiny link and a tiny piece of print at the very bottom of the listing.
I'm off this thread now, I have decided not to pay, this person knows from their previous feedback that they are not being clear, and have chosen to carry on, so let them get more bad feedback and more non payers. One piece of bad feedback for me from someone with a ton of it is fine by me!

OP posts:
sarahlou1uk · 16/08/2007 17:46

I thought it was against ebay rules to add vat after the item had been sold? I thought the price sold for had to include vat? If this is so, report to ebay.

wheresthehamster · 16/08/2007 17:53

The couple of times that I have bought goods with ex-vat it has been a lot clearer than that so I can see your point.

sixlostmonkeys · 16/08/2007 17:54

no, it is normal practice to add VAT after the sale, just like in a trade shop/store/warehouse