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Original poster

Buyer says chair broke once he sat on it

67 replies

ebayquery · 09/03/2015 09:04

Sold a chair- antique- and the buyer now contacts me to say the chair has broken when he has sat on it. He says it must have been recently repaired. This is untrue- it's never been repaired in all the years we have owned it.
It was advertised as a chair for a hall or bedroom- it's not the type of chair you would sit on daily anyway.
He is asking for us to collect and give a full refund.
What does anyone advise? If he has broken it then it's not our fault but I have 100% feedback and don't want any bad feedback left.

OP posts:
currentnameinuse · 09/03/2015 15:46

it makes no odds - if he proves he has returned it they will refund him. Repaired or broken, if he sends it back then they will give him his money back. And his messages are not proof he received it. Without online trackable proof from a courier you again would lose a case. Legal director or not makes no difference - which is why you should have only accepted cash for it when he collected it.

AlternativeTentacles · 09/03/2015 15:56

Never ever get paypal if the buyer collects. As you can't prove that you sent it.

Original poster
ebayquery · 09/03/2015 16:03

He won't be able ,I doubt very much, to prove he has returned it because the cost of transport and the time to package it will outweigh the purchase price.
I am not wanting 'special treatment'- no need for sarcy comments- I am just saying that some of you seem to be experts but I've been using ebay for years and know it's not quite so black and white.

AT I don't understand your post. I don't need to prove it was sent- it was collection only as shown in the listing.

And I don't agree with those of you who say his messages via Ebay are worthless- they clearly state he collected the chair and what happened once it was home.

I've raised a claim against a fraudulent sale in the past ( I bought something that wasn't genuine) and Ebay track all the messages via the site- the look at the chain of correspondence between buyer and seller.

OP posts:
Original poster
ebayquery · 09/03/2015 16:05

Never ever get paypal if the buyer collects. As you can't prove that you sent it.

so how does receiving cash prove it's been collected?

OP posts:
AlternativeTentacles · 09/03/2015 16:07

so how does receiving cash prove it's been collected?

You don't but you have the money in your hand. Paypal can't refund what they never had.

momb · 09/03/2015 16:09

What tentacles said. Cash only on collection for buyer and seller safety.

RedRugNoniMouldiesEtc · 09/03/2015 16:14

If he seeks refund through PayPal ebay messages mean nothing. They only count if he claims through eBay (unlikely) and even then ebay can insist on proof of delivery in a standard accepted format (royal mail signed for etc)

Always cash on collection so then he can't claim a fraudulent refund - because there is no refund to be had unless you agree. Protect yourself at all times.

Tbh these are pretty basic ebay practices.

currentnameinuse · 09/03/2015 16:18

why would you need proof it has been collected?

If you don't think we are experts why come here asking for advice?

Go and ask on the eBay community boards, they will tell you exactly the same as you have been told here. But heck, I have been selling and buying for 15 years, clearly I know nothing.....

Original poster
ebayquery · 09/03/2015 16:22

I'm not sure that this is 'basic' stuff. I've been selling and buying for ages and had no problems except buying something that turned out to be not genuine. The onus was on me to prove it wasn't- which meant sending the product to the manufacturer for proof etc which, considering the value, I didn't.

If I were a buyer I'd want to pay via Paypal in case there were any issues afterwards- it doesn't protect the buyer to pay with cash.

Also, I am not sure- I simply don't know- that Ebay would not be interested in this kind of thing because Ebay and Paypal work together.

Do those of you who are posting these comments actually know what you are saying is 100% fact- or are you assuming? If you are sure you are right, then fair enough, but if you are not really sure and just assuming then that's not helpful.

OP posts:
Original poster
ebayquery · 09/03/2015 16:26

I think the best thing to do is come to some arrangement with him because clearly if he doesn't want the chair he is not keeping it AND going through Paypal to dishonestly claim all his money back. He would get bad feedback as a buyer anyway. The compromise would be him to collect the chair and then a refund. But then we are left with a chair that was perfectly serviceable when it was collected and now it's broken.

OP posts:
currentnameinuse · 09/03/2015 16:26

It doesn't protect a buyer if they need to return a collected item - so you are wrong there.

eBay own Paypal

Yes we know - why on earth would we lie. You stating you have messages to prove he received it will not win a not received case.

Anyway - you don't want to trust our advice, so just give your mate a call. Dunno why you didn't do that in the first place seeing as we know nowt...

WaxOnWaxOff · 09/03/2015 16:28

Surely your 'legal director of paypal' friend would be the best person to ask for advice?

Original poster
ebayquery · 09/03/2015 16:32

Yes they will- but due to the time difference between us and San Jose, California, I can't call him just at the moment. But thanks for the suggestion.

OP posts:
Original poster
ebayquery · 09/03/2015 16:34

I am actually very disappointed at the MN tone on all of this.
I wanted to discuss the moral situation rather than the next step of someone trying to defraud me of money.

In my eyes a chair was sold in working order. Now, well over a week later, the buyer tells me he has broken it and that we should give him a refund after collecting it.

I don't think that is right or fair.

OP posts:
EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 09/03/2015 16:39

What use is discussing the moral situation? eBay and paypal find in favour of buyers, that's what happens. If he raises a case and states it's damaged you will be given a chance to pay for it to be returned and you will have to refund him. If you refuse, paypal will do it anyway and he will be left with the chair and the refund.
This is fact. And the advice to never take paypal for collection items is sound.

Mrschicken01 · 09/03/2015 16:43

OP Several years ago. I purchased an antique chair ( not off ebay)for my DP to sit at while at his desk. After a few weeks of normal use it became very wobbly and I was able to return it to the seller who agreed this should not have happened and actually repaired the chair for me, I was a holy with this.

My point is that a chair, unless stated as decorative only really should be fit to sit on for a good few years I think. As a previous poster has said the chair probably had deteriorated over time as is normal. As the buyer has flagged the issues up with you immediately I think the best a and fairest things to do is to just take it back and chalk it up to experience. After all it's very unlikely thatnitnhas been 'mis used' isn't it.

Mrschicken01 · 09/03/2015 16:44

I think you have to take the view that this was a. 'Latent fault' with the chair, and that, as it had not been sat on regularly in your home this was something neither you or the buyer could have been aware of until he purchased it and put it into regular use.

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 09/03/2015 16:44

IF it hasn't been used for years it probably had wormwood

currentnameinuse · 09/03/2015 16:45

moral situation means nothing in the eyes of a not received dispute - hence when you signed up to paypal you agreed you would send items tracked. It even tells you in the email when you are paid money.

Why are you shifting the goalposts now? We told you what you don't want to hear and you blame us and now start moralising? Bizarre................

Sorry we warned you of the pitfalls. Shan't bother next time. Sure your friend will fix it all and you can complain to him about morals and tone of others.

momb · 09/03/2015 16:50

On the other hand, I have bought chairs very inexpensively with the expectation that the rear joints would be loose and then fixed them.
Every buyer's expectation is different, and sadly on Ebay some people think they can pay jumble sale prices and get Tate Gallery quality.

You are not necessarily in the wrong but neither is he. neither of you protected yourselves well but in this case paypal will refund his money. You need to find a reason to head out in that direction and collect your chair.

He should have tested the chair on collection if he needed to use something that old for regular use and you should have gone for cash on collection.
Live and learn.

RedRugNoniMouldiesEtc · 09/03/2015 16:55

The people are right, not assuming. There are many cases where fraudulent claims have been made after paying via PayPal then collecting. It is ebay basics, it is common knowledge and a common enough occurrence, in fact it is even covered on the PayPal/ebay forums.

Morally you can be as right as you like but it means nothing in reality.

Dumbledoresgirl · 09/03/2015 17:02

To all those who say you should only accept cash on collection, not paypal, may I ask how do you enforce this?

I have heard it said before and always write on the listing of anything I sell for collection only 'cash on collection preferred' because someone once told me you are not allowed to not accept payment via paypal.

On two occasions, the buyer has paid via paypal regardless. I understand that they are protecting themselves, but also see that I am a) losing out by having to pay paypal fees and b) opening myself up to fraud. The fraud has luckily never happened.

But what do you do when a buyer pays via paypal even though you ask for cash? To avoid confrontation, and putting myself in the wrong with regard to having to accept payment via paypal, I have never said anything. But some of you seem so strong on this subject so I wonder how you deal with it?

currentnameinuse · 09/03/2015 17:08

You just refund their paypal and ask them to pay in cash when they collect. What they going to do - if they refuse then cancel and relist. They can't force you to hand over the goods.

And paying by paypal when you collect is not protecting yourself at all.

AlternativeTentacles · 09/03/2015 17:08

To all those who say you should only accept cash on collection, not paypal, may I ask how do you enforce this?

Please pay me cash on collection - thanks.

Usually works for me.

I've refunded before saying 'I got stung once, by a buyer paying paypal and then pretending that I hadn't sent the item that they picked up, so can you please pay cash when you collect - thanks'.

RedRugNoniMouldiesEtc · 09/03/2015 17:09

As current name says refund with a polite message. Cash on collection is non negotiable.

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