When should I worry?

[2cubesoficeandasliceoflime]

Edit - still long and rambling. Sorry.
Tl:dr - my daughter has suddenly started being really fussy with food and missing lots of meals. When should I be worried and what can I do, to bring her back?

I wrote a long rambling post but it hopefully this is more to the point.

My daughter is almost 15. She's always had a positive attitude to food and would eat/try most things. We've tried to be healthy most of the time. We've never put any emotions to food or used as a reward/punishment. She's always known when she's had enough and we've always respected that.

She's stopped eating breakfast (which I know is a normal thing about her age so no biggy). School have changed their lunch system so she's refusing to queue for lunch. She won't take in a packed lunch either. So now she isn't eating lunch most days. When she gets home, she's claiming she's hungry but then refuses to eat pretty much anything that is cooked for her (even stuff she's eaten happily for years).

Then she's hangry and everything gets too much for her.

When I do her washing, her pockets are full of sweet wrappers which is a recent thing. By itself, not a big deal.

Yesterday she was out with friends but food wise, its a fairly typical day now I think. She didn't have breakfast. She had a packet of crisps and a coffee whilst out. Then bought some nachos, guacamole, salsa and sourcream. I said she couldnt eat all of them because tea was soon.

She said she was starving but then said she wouldn't eat the curry I was making because she "didn't like it" (she does). Sure enough, she ate the naan bread but wouldn't entertain the curry. We made her sit at the table until everyone had finished but after establishing she wouldn't eat the curry we didn't push it. Instead she went to bed hungry.

This morning, I made her some breakfast, she refused it, and moaned that she wouldn't have lunch either.

So in 48hrs she'll have eaten a packet of crisps, half a pack of nacho crisps with shop bought guacamole, shop bought salsa, sour cream and a naan bread. Plus whatever she will eat for tea.

I won't make food a battle ground. I don't want to make it into a big deal but it is isn't it?

I've asked her what she would like for tea and she said she didn't know but I'm the adult so I should. I've said if she tells us, we can look into it. Apparently that was the wrong thing to say.

She has said she wants to cook which is fine but again won't tell us what or will decide she can't be bothered when we do her her the ingredients she wants. Or she only wants to cook for herself but no one else which isn't an option.

She's struggling with school and with herself generally at the moment. She's fallen out with a lot of her friends and it looks like her and her "best friend" have fallen out permanently. I think she's realised that she just wasn't a very nice person to her.

She's definitely started weaponising certain things at home and knows what to say to hurt me or get me angry (now I've recognised this, I am working on reacting better).

I'm hoping that she isn't using food to control things.

I have said we're worried about her but whatever I say or do at the moment is wrong so she won't talk to me.

Sorry to hear this my daughter is very slight and can stop eating if stressed or upset , also my MIL is anorexic following loss , it generally is all stress related.

i am not an expert but what I would do is
tell the school your concerns they may be able to put things in place to support her

I would not mention food and eating at all , no negative comments at all , just provide plenty of food and snacks make no comments regarding what she eats or doesn’t eat , make sure everyone in the family is on board with this

work on stress reduction , do more if the things that bring her joy and relaxation chatter with her about what’s she looking at in line it may be fuelling her current thinking

reach out to organisations like BEAT

good luck 🤞

Please don’t stop your dd from eating again. That really is the wrong message and as someone, whose dd has been where yours was and got progressively worse and was refusing to eat some days, then eating max 200 calories other days, I’m actually quite surprised you did. I imagine that’s an instinctive response from when she was little. But things have drastically changed. She’s obviously really struggling right now.

I’m pretty sure from what you’ve said that she’s using food as a control mechanism. The priority therefore right now isn’t that she eats what you dictate but that she eats. So high calorie dense foods are the easiest ways. Prioritise carbohydrates, protein and fat right now over fruits and veg. The sour cream and nachos are great, very high calorie dense foods. Guacamole also has avocado, which are fats. The naan again, it’s a good source of carb. But the thing she’s missing from this is protein. You don’t have the tools right now to challenge that and the attempts you’ve made so far have had her digging her heels in.

You also seem to be putting up a lot of barriers to your dd. I don’t understand why your dd can’t just cook for herself. I think you really seriously need a rethink as you’re coming across as quite controlling. If money isn’t an issue and especially if she’s choosing calorie dense foods, I would not be stopping her from cooking and eating. I would also take her to the supermarket to stock up on food. If she will eat things like sour cream and chive dip, buy the M&S one also available at Ocado. It’s the highest calories. If she will eat houmous, get ones with the highest calorie content. Dd eats Ocado own brand sweet chilli at 298 calories per 100g.

The reason as to why your dd is being vile from what you’ve said I would imagine is because her brain is being starved. Ditto why she has fallen out with friends. My dd was / is vile. Hateful. At her worst she told me multiple times a day she wished me dead. It’s not her. It’s the anorexic voice. And it’s not something to challenge right now. The priority is love and care so that she is able to eat.

Stopping eating lunch is the biggest single factor to developing an eating disorder. I think you need some guidance and I would be contacting your gp to get an urgent referral to CAMHS. And don’t comment on her food atm. If she’s eating sweets, that is still carbs and calories.

Like the previous pp, this rings alarm bells for me as my DSD started off like this and ended up sectioned, being fed through a tube and is currently awaiting a place at a psychiatric unit, where she’s likely to spend the next 6 months. From what you’ve described til now took about 9 months. It’s terrifying how quickly it takes hold. I would say it’s very unlikely CAMHS would accept a referral at this stage, they didn’t accept my DSD until she was refusing to eat altogether and on the feeding tube. They rejected her several times in the months leading up to this. My advice is to do whatever you can to stop it turning into a ‘thing’. Let her eat whatever she likes if she’s eating, let her cook if she wants to, don’t give the food avoidance too much attention (we’re pretty sure for us it started off as an attention seeking attempt). If she has any sort of anxiety that might be causing this then try and get her some counselling asap, but don’t make it food/eating related. Good luck. I wish we could go back to this time and play things very differently.

Please, please don’t listen to this. Anorexia is a very serious mental health disease and not “stress” induced. Trust me, I know. The other replies here are very factual and I would suggest doing a lot of research (I wish I had done more in the early days and not trusted CAMHS so much). The key is feed, feed, feed. Food is the medicine now 💐

Thank you for your comments. I'm so sorry for what you and your children are going through. X

I understand what you are saying about just letting her eat. Ironically, normally I'd have just let the nachos go, on the basis that she was generally eating ok. But I was trying to get her to eat tea because she hadn't eaten properly during the day and sure enough it just meant she didn't eat. So that back fired!

So yes, maybe any food is good food right now.

I'm not controlling really - honest! We've always been very relaxed and impartial about food as we've always figured it works itself out long term re health wise. I will try to be more aware of the control/power thing though.

She won't tell us what food she wants. The idea of dragging her round a supermarket is both our idea of hell! She won't help with online shopping.

Last night I did pasta with kale (she loves kale) and she ate half of it (yay!). I didn't comment but asked if she'd like pasta again today and she asked for pesto with it. She was very enthusiastic about making it herself but this morning when I asked my husband to pick up some basil (not done purposely in front of her) she had a melt down. I said she doesn't have to cook if she doesn't want to and we left it at that but she was clearly getting stressed about the thought of it so we'll see how that goes.

Cooking for just herself just isn't practical.

Re lunch. We're trying to get the school to help but they are not willing to. I have made her packed lunches in the past and she has refused them.

She's changing schools in September (she cant move earlier) and we are really, really hoping the lunch process is better. I don't know that it will be though.

Also, remember that none of this is your fault. It’s genetic. Maybe look up the Eva Musby book to help try and get your head around it all as a starting point. Once this bastard disease properly gets hold, it’s a fucker to get rid of it.

I understand that you don’t consider yourself controlling around food. I didn’t. However, telling someone, who is struggling to eat to stop eating high calorie dense carbs and fats because you want them to eat something else is asserting too much control over the situation and will have been very confusing for your dd. If she’s eating something that will continue to make her body and hopefully her brain function, right now that’s good.

It is also good she ate the pasta last night. And positive that she wanted to make herself some food even if she felt unable and too overwhelmed to follow through. I would question how much protein she is having. But that’s a question for another day perhaps.

I suggested taking your dd to the supermarket because it is not uncommon for people with ED to want to go and look at food. Maybe she won’t be like this or perhaps she’s not yet in full starvation. It doesn’t have to be a specific shop for her. Perhaps you could go to town together to buy something for her and—ok=_ you could just happen to pop into M&S food hall while you're there for example. Then hover around easy foods. Dips, ready made meals, pizzas, crisps, snacks, biscuits etc. See if your dd wants anything. And taking a very low key approach is food is good. So no talk about ‘treats’. All food is food.

I still don’t get what you’re saying about your dd just cooking for herself not being practical. Is this because she feels unable to cook? Some people with ED will make tons of food for others but won’t eat it themselves for example, some will not. Everyone is different. Anything, where your dd is around food is good. She may just nibble at something, you never know.

As for getting more advice, I think it would be beneficial for you to look at the support thread. At the very least, read from where PermanentlyExhaustedPigeon80 joins the thread. There’s a lot of information on the thread about what you can and should do as well as links to outside resources. Idk if your dd is at a stage, where she would be diagnosed with an eating disorder right now and looks as though she’s headed that way. Eating disorders are a massively complex issue and it really isn’t possible to tell you to do x and expect y outcome.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/eating_disorders/5172972-support-thread-13-for-parents-of-young-people-with-an-eating-disorder?page=9&reply=143917419

I meant to add, I would stock up on the nachos, sour cream and guacamole. Ensure foods that your dd will eat are always available.

The not being able to cook for just herself is just because of timings. Our kitchen is small so literally one person cooking means no one else can use it. That isn't exaggerating. This means that she'll take ages cooking herself a meal in the evening (which in itself would be fine and my husband and I would wait to eat) but we have other children who need to eat.

If she wanted to cook for everyone - great! But she doesn't. We've suggested cooking for herself on a weekend when everyone has time but she won't.

We've never treated food as treats / rewards / punishments.

Ah ok I see. That’s tough…. would she cook and eat if she could have the run of the kitchen? I’m just wondering and presuming she will, if you can tweak things to accommodate her even if it’s a big pain. Eg Batch cooking at weekends so things just need to be heated up, getting a slow cooker so that you prep in the morning, takeaways / McDonald’s etc. Right now it’s important to get this under control and you don’t need this to get full blown. It’s awful when it gets bad and will affect your other dcs a lot more than kitchen logistics if it does.

Yes we will sort something but... our oven broke last week so we are limited re re-heating. We have the funds to replace the oven so that's not a problem but we are having a real issue finding ovens with plugs that reach the socket. I remember this being an issue last time too. Of all the ridiculous things! So we need an electrician to move the socket (or even one that will add a longer lead to an oven!) but they are proving illusive.

The reheating is a good call though.

I wonder if we could borrow a microwave from someone until it's sorted? We don't have room for one and we wouldn't use it normally so I'll see if we can borrow one before buying one. That way, she can do what she needs to do and we could even put the microwave in the dining room. Then if she decides she doesn't want to cook after all,like the other night, it's not a big deal.

I'm not sure that cooking it herself will make a difference tbh but we're willing to do whatever she thinks will help.

We have a meeting with school tomorrow. I threatened to go to Ofstead about lack of lunchtime provision so we are meeting with the head of year and head of pastoral. I need to write a list of demands! 🤣

I have similar concerns about my DD who is 15 and I also had disordered eatjng myself as a teen. I think if I were you, I would be worried now. Skipping one meal is not great but skipping two means she is going a very long time without eating . The emotional relationship she has with food does not sound healthy

My DD has a CAMHS appointment soon for other issues where I will be raising my concerns. If I were you I would see if you can get her to see the GP, or at least contact your surgery to see what support is available. The BEAT website is helpful too.

In practical terms, does the school sell snacks at breaktime which have a shorter queue? Or take some snacks with her rather than a full packed lunch? Then she would have eaten something and can make herself something when she gets home. I have found it's best to have plenty of food available in the fridge and cupboard so she can choose things at her own time. I.woildnt comment on what she is choosing. I also wouldn't make her sit at the table if she doesn't want to eat the meal. I would casually offer something else to go with the, eg naan bread that would be easy to prepare.