"Too intelligent for counselling"

[CharlotteBog]

I was talking to a friend today who has concerns about her young adult daughter. She knows I have had my own problems, but not to what degree.

At one point she said her daughter was too intelligent for therapy.
I take umbrage at this. I had a lot of support from an ED MN nurse and a consultant psychologist. They got to know me, learnt what my level of education was and my current profession.
I believe EDs are more common in high achieving, perfectionists ie. I'm pretty sure ED teams are used to working with intelligent people.

My inclination is to talk to her about it - give her my POV so that she can see that it might be useful for her daughter, but it would be quite an effort to explain it all and my impression I got is that the daughter is doing OK at the moment but resistant to support i.e. me talking to her won't make a difference.

So, I'm writing it here to get it off my chest.

Ugghh, god, people like that are unbearable. Reminds me of those monsters who send their kids to private schools and then justify it by saying "well, you know, Sebastian is such a sensitive, intelligent boy that we thought he'd be frustrated at the local state modern. I sometimes think that's why he's naughty [in other words, why he's a vile little sod and no one in the neighbourhood can stand him]. He gets frustrated that other children can't keep up with him and so he misbehaves."

I'm wary of labeling people clever or stupid. For a start, there are different kinds of intelligence. There is mathematical-logical intelligence, then there is the more verbal/literary intelligence. Some people excel at one but not the other. My brother, for example, failed GCSE maths twice, but is now doing a PhD in poetry. Humour is a form of intelligence, and so is empathy. We've all met people who can solve puzzles and win chess games but have zero personality, never get a joke and never understand other people's feelings.

I'd say the only people too intelligent for therapy are the ones who constantly self-analyze. I mean people who are agonizingly self-aware. Even in those cases, however, they probably have blind spots. That said, I have little faith in therapy anyway. I've known several people who've tried it, and none seem any happier.

To be honest (and of course depending on the details of the situation) I have quite a lot of sympathy for what your friend has said. Obviously, if someone needs help it is important to keep on trying to get interventions from suitable people, but it is incredibly damaging - both to therapy and to the self-esteem of the person needing help - to have to keep on attending appointments with people who are not terribly bright and who have an overly optimistic view of how well their training equips them to produce insight for the patient.

It isn't essential to be clever, but it is essential to have enough intelligence to realise your own limitations and to realise the unique insights that a patient can bring to their own therapy.

My son was in the mental health system for years and it broke my heart to see how complacent some professionals were about allowing their own very limited expertise and insight to displace respect for my son's own intelligent awareness of his situation.

He was very very ill, and absolutely needed to be guided by others. But he was also a very intelligent person, and spent a lot of time being polite and non-confrontational about people who thought, on the basis of not-very-much, that they were the guardians of what counted as the truth about his life. No severe failures, just the constant daily erosion of self-respect that is pretty much inevitable when you become a mental health patient - ubless you have gifted therapists.

I don't know why I said 'no severe failures'. There were severe failures, but I am focusing for this thread on the more day-to-day frustrations.

You could have misunderstood what she meanr OP.

Perhaps your friend means her DD isn't ready for help. You could potentially take the "too intelligent" comment as her meaning "DD will know what to say to make herself sound well/that she doesnt have an issue etc"

I don't think she means "people who go to counselling are unintelligent"

The person who lies convincingly to the therapist and whose illness hence goes untreated might be cunning, but they aren't actually very intelligent. If they were intelligent, they'd recognise that the therapy is to help them and engage with it.

I agree , I wouldn't waste my breath.

That is a very unfair take. Plenty of people, of all levels of intelligence, are deeply conflicted about therapy because of the very nature of their illness. They are often ambivalent about cooperating, sometimes consciously and sometimes unconsciously. As I understand it, that is particularly the case with eating disorders.
dismissing those internal tensions as 'cunning' or low intelligence is absolutely blind to the mechanics and ethos of therapy.

That's not really about intelligence though is it? That's more about having a lack of insight into the fact they have an illness or disease, and the ability to manipulate the therapist to stay unwell.

I had ED therapy because I wanted it, and it helped immensely. Nothing to do with my intelligence really.

Actually this is a well known 'thing'. It's not about saying that people for whom therapy works well are thick, but about recognising that certain types of therapy work less well for people whose brains work in a particular way. And absolutely nothing to do with those people being "cunning".
A therapist told me many years ago that she didn't feel I was benefitting from her input - which was also my feeling - because I was too intelligent. She said I was working out where she was going and was giving her the answers I knew she expected. She was right and I had been finding it a frustrating and pointless experience, although I was too polite to say so. She referred me to a colleague whose approach was very different and that was a much more successful relationship. It's about horses for courses and there's no need for people to get offended.

It sounds like you're describing an inability/unwillingness to be honest with a therapist, not intelligence.

Why were you giving her answers you knew she expected, instead of your real answers? Did you not want the therapy to work, or was it a people pleasing tendency that she was unable to identify and help you work on?

Is there any chance your friend was saying it in a sarcastic way? I recall being in my 20s and thinking I had it all figured out, I was a right know it all.

I can see my mum saying similar in a jokey way “oh she’s too intelligent for therapy” to allude to me thinking I knew everything already so wouldn’t consider therapy as it won’t teach me anything.

A therapist told me many years ago that she didn't feel I was benefitting from her input - which was also my feeling - because I was too intelligent. She said I was working out where she was going and was giving her the answers I knew she expected. She was right and I had been finding it a frustrating and pointless experience, although I was too polite to say so.
Therapy needs both the therapist and the client to be on board to stand a hope in hell of working. You clearly weren’t on board hence wanting to wrap up questions quickly. Now’t to do with intelligence

My mum said this about herself ar one point.

It isn’t as easy as just recognising it is to help you and engage. There can be many reasons why patients cannot verbalise deep seated issues, or actively shy away from talking about certain parts of their life. It’s usually not deliberate but due to their blind spots or psychological barriers or even memory blocks.

I have alexithymia as part of my autism so I really struggle to verbalise emotions. That's not the same as being foolish enough to deliberately lie to the therapist who is trying to help me.

@CharlotteBog Perhaps you need to take a step back from being concerned about this young woman and her mother's lack of comprehension, and take care of yourself. If you are finding it a difficult topic to discuss with her, then you need to protect your own wellbeing first. That might mean taking a step back from the friendship too.

not been back as apparently were aggressive for thinking the friend was thoughtless

told me many years ago that she didn't feel I was benefitting from her input - which was also my feeling - because I was too intelligent. She said I was working out where she was going and was giving her the answers I knew she expected.
I think it is a euphemism! Because not being able to engage, and analyse your own thinking sounds like the diammetric opposite of intelligent! An intelligent person would understand the importance of truthful answers to the successful working of the process.

That's what I said! Prepare to be shot down in flames.

I think you can certainly be ‘too intelligent’ for individual therapists. I’ve always used language and knowledge as a defence, and I’ve seen therapists/GPs/psychologists who were either impressed by this or found it difficult to deal with. My current therapist sees exactly what I’m doing and skewers it. I’ve seen similar with a clever friend who’s been hospitalised for anorexia on a number of occasions — she ended up with Zoom sessions with a ED specialist in another country because she couldn’t find someone to work with here.

Some people seem to be taking unnecessary offence at this thread. I'd never had therapy before, I was in a complete state and desperate for help, so I certainly wasn't deliberately sabotaging as some PP have suggested. When the therapist made the comment I assumed she was trying to let me down kindly in a way that wouldn't make me feel blamed. But I've since learned that it isn't uncommon. Like I say, different people's brains work differently and it's horses for courses. No need for anyone to feel offended - or to be offensive.

exactly!!

i don’t think anyone was “offended” by your post

Baffled that you had that interpretation of the scenario more like when to rest of us… it strikes us rather differently

As I say, different people's brains work differently. I think that's one of the good things about human beings.

I don't think anyone is too intelligent for therapy. In fact, more intelligent people are more suitable for some modalities of therapy than those of lower intelligence. I do think an individual may be too intelligent for a particular therapist. Qualifications and intelligence levels of therapists vary greatly and if an individual is of very high intelligence working with a therapist of lower intelligence would be tricky. Finding the right fit is important when working with a therapist.