Advice from adults with ED's- confused! Help!

[Millie2008]

Hey 👋 so I have a (long winded!) question and I'd love the thoughts of other adults with ED’s.
About me: currently 37. Eating issues since 13-ish. Always restrictive. Inpatient treatment at 17 for anorexia. Complied and gained weight so discharged. Lost it all again quite quickly. But desperate to leave home and go to uni so gained enough to make this possible. Then I'd say I've been in an endless cycle of atypical anorexia in terms of having patches of disordered eating with weight loss, but never enough to be classified as anorexic. Anyway, from about 33-36 I felt genuinely free from it all. In retrospect I think this subconsciously was due to 2 pregnancies and breastfeeding - so feeling like my body was not mine exactly, but had to be fuelled to sustain other peoples lives. I remember feeling very happy, and genuinely not caring that my body shape was different- I just thought my body was amazing for producing humans and their food! Anyway, to my point. I reached the stage, maybe when my second child was about 1.5, that I had the thought "I should probably be a bit healthier"- at this point this was genuinely to do with health and wanting to be as healthy as possible for my children. A normal parental thought I would have thought. And I knew I needed to introduce a few healthier habits like making sure I got enough fruit and veg etc. I hadn't been weighing myself in all this time, but did at this point and my bmi was 23.7. Once I thought about it and was out of the post pregnancy euphoria I did think I was a bit of an odd shape (big post baby tummy- but wasn't overly bothered about it). My plan was to add in more fruit and veg and lose a few pounds. This is how it started. Then I started just reading up on what constituted "healthy" these days, and came across Michael Mosley and intermittent fasting/cutting down on sugar and starchy refined carbs/Mediterranean diet. I followed this, as I really trust Michael Mosley as he seems scientific in his approach. The weight dropped off, which was amazing at first. But over about 6 months I lost enough weight to take my bmi down to 19.1. I noticed the old anorexic thoughts creeping back in. At Christmas I basically had a 7 day binge. Post Christmas I panicked a bit as I'd gained about 4Ibs in 7 days. But over the months decided I hadn't felt super healthy at that weight. So I went back to the drawing board about the best way to be healthy and became immersed in veganism (was already veggie for most of my life). I started using the "daily dozen" app to try and get enough of all nutrients on a daily basis. This felt good for a while. Until I realised my weight was slowly creeping up and I was feeling out of control of it. So recently I've brought back the intermittent fasting, and have started fasting 2 days a week (as suggested by Michael mosleys 5:2 diet). This has been very effective and I lost 3Ibs in 3 days (BMI now 19.6 - so perfectly healthy atm). Started counting calories etc (as suggested on this diet) on both the fasting and non-fasting days. Again, I'm noticing all the anorexic thoughts creeping back in. At least I think they are disordered. This is my confusion! Am I being disordered? Or is this actually a good way to eat and live? Plenty of people are eating this way and it's considered a healthy lifestyle. There's a doctor (MM) telling us this is a good way to live. On the one hand I'm worried I'm just using all these diets as a cover up for my ED- sort of convincing myself that it's normal and healthy. On the other hand I'm genuinely wondering if it is a perfectly healthy way to live. Michael Mosley also suggests that weighing yourself every day is a good idea. I'm obviously doing this. And then telling myself I'm doing it because that's healthy and normal. I feel totally confused!! I think my thoughts are disordered as I'm beginning to think things like, I'll just get my weight down to the lowest healthy weight (so bmi 18.5)- is that normal? I also def get a buzz in the morning when my weight goes down - but perhaps that's normal too? I certainly have no desire to get to a really physically unhealthy point. But then it never starts off that way does it... arg! Please tell me your thoughts on this if it doesn't all sound too rambley and confused 😐 x

I guess I'm beginning to wonder whether a bit like how an alcoholic can't drink at all if they want to stay recovered, an anorexic can't go on diets to stay recovered. But then that seems unfair as then I think I'd just get overweight and that's obviously unhealthy too!

I don't have time to write a great deal now, but I imagine any professional supporting those with EDs would advise you to throw MM and his 'recommendations' in the bin.
Anything that leaves you feeling hungry or encourages fast weight loss is to be avoided if you have any history of disordered eating. Does MM not have any advice for people with EDs? I've heard of him but never read any of it.

There is BIG different between a healthy diet and a diet.

Sorry, I do have time to say good luck. You sound strong and smart and I think you know MM is not good for you. I also think you are wise enough to stay at a healthy BMI - go up and down a bit (as is normal) and adjust a normal diet accordingly.
What stuck with me was when my ED nurse said to be when I was at a low but healthy weight, but still with a very disordered mindset, was that I could accept that this is how my life would be. I wouldn't get physically too unwell, would emotionally struggle on and that would be it. OR I could continue to fight, tell the ED to do one and get on with my life not being beholden to something which is frankly very boring and very dull, not to mention exhausting.

@TheOrigRights thank you so much for taking the time to reply, I really appreciate it. I have tried to see if MM has anything to say about ED's and I can't find anything.
Yes, what your nurse said to you really resonates and is helpful to hear. Do you feel you're managing to take the advice moving forwards? How are you getting on if you don't mind me asking? And is there anything you'd recommend reading/listening to? I've just started reading Tabitha Farrar's book...

On the one hand I'm worried I'm just using all these diets as a cover up for my ED- sort of convincing myself that it's normal and healthy.

Sorry OP but reading your post it seems like this is exactly what you are doing.

A diet based on restriction (like 5:2) or calorie counting is absolutely not healthy for a person with a history of anorexia to follow, at all. It is completely feeding in to your existing issues and recreating all the physical sensations and mental obsessions of anorexia.

I have to admit I am not an ED sufferer myself but my best friend has been for many years so I sadly have a lot of experience of being very close to it, and I would be hugely concerned if she started following any of the plans you mentioned above, as I know it would be the start of a downward spiral for her.

It would be far better for you - if you possibly can - to add fruit and veg into what used to be your norm when you felt better, rather than try all of these restrictive diets which could lead you into danger.

Great thread! This has been on my mind a lot lately. I don't have answers but here are some thoughts.

Maybe there's a third way. I'm starting to think of an ED like diabetes or a similar chronic condition that can be well managed while forever prevalent. I'm having the best relationship with my body and food so far, though I do follow some consitent rules and am maintaing healthy thin weight (BMI around 20). No amount of therapy or trying different recovery approaches could stop me from feeling disgusted by fat. I have persistent and resistent obesophobia and rather than trying the impossible (believeing that one can be healthy and looking and feeling good at every size) I decided to accept myself with all of these distorted beliefs I have. It's like the more I fight the ED thoughts the stronget they grow. Instead, I let them be - but not take over the ship. I simoly need certain rules and routines to stay feeling minimally safe, but at the same time I allow some room for flexibility and adjustment when circumstances change. And I'm feeling okay.

Does this make any sense?

I'm 44, my ED started at 13 and "officially" ended at 29. Mostly bulimia while being slightly overweight, but with a very anorexic mindset.

Thanx for listening. :)

@GlitteryGreen thank you for your reply. I had (and still have!) an amazing friend who I trusted when I was at my worst as a teen, and I honestly don't know what I would have done without her. So I'm sure your friend is very lucky to have you by her side.
I actually really value your thoughts as a "non-eating disordered" person. I totally get what you're saying, that these types of diets trigger AN type thoughts in those with a predisposition. Can I ask you whether you think these sorts of diets are suitable for anyone? For example, would you be able to happily go on 5:2 or 16:8 intermittent fasting types things and it be successful. I guess a stress is, almost, like it's unfair that I can't go on these diets if they're the healthiest way to live- if that makes sense? Like I'm accepting that because I have a history of ED's I have to accept I'll be unhealthier than those who haven't- or at least can't live in the most healthy way in case it triggers my ED. Does that make sense? Or is it bonkers! I'm prepared for you to tell me it's the latter 😂
Your last comment t is very interesting because that is EXACTLY how this whole recent episode started off last summer- I firstly just thought, ok, I need to cut down on the daily chocolate and cake (and even snacking at night due to breastfeeding!)- but then thought, no, I'm going to "add in" healthy foods instead (like fruit etc.) and if I still want cake etc. after that I'll still eat it. However, annoyingly this mindset didn't last long. It's so frustrating. But as a normal eater- how do you manage these kinds of things? Genuinely curious about how normal people think and behave so I can try and replicate!

And sorry for all the typos ... ;)

@Emilivity thank you for your thoughts- I really appreciate all perspectives on this.
I think this is where I'm at. Like thinking, would a compromise be just existing at the lowest possible "healthy" weight. This certainly feels like the safest option in my head. But then there's always that risk that you'd just keep attempting to get that bit lower isn't there? Plus, for me anyway, I think I can only last in restrictive mode for 6 months before being sick of it and going to the other extreme. And so the cycle goes on. I think for me, if I'm totally honest with myself, my natural weight is quite a lot bigger than I am now. I know this because even after just a week of unrestricted eating I pile on the Ib's. Which leads me to believe I'm not one of these naturally very thin people. I'm reading this book by Tabitha Farrar who would suggest that in fact it is in fact possible to fully recover 100% I'm yet to decide if this is true but trying to stay open minded

@Millie2008 Yes, definitely, you should insist on finding your own way and best strategy that works for you and you only. :) Interesting, I discovered Tabitha just a couple of days ago and went through almost all of her podcasts. :) I think she makes some very strong points, but she also presents a quite narrow view (almost strictly biological, while she also endorses the HAES view which is not very evidence based ...). But in theory I agree, a healthy weight or BMI is something quite unique for each one of us. We can talk about average but at the same time we're all different.

Thank you for your thoughts. :)

Hi there
As a fellow sufferer who has been in and out of recovery, I would say that any diet / restrictive eating will end up aggravating the ED. It is so difficult, as there is not a week that goes by without weight loss coming up on the news or in every single magazine and newspaper. So many messages are muddled / confused. My advice would be to follow Rhiannon Lambert on instagram www.instagram.com/rhitrition/ as well as Orri (they have webinars where you can tune in for support as well as a vimeo channel with videos) instagram - www.instagram.com/orri_uk/ and vimeo - vimeo.com/orriuk

Also, many GPs are not properly trained in EDs, so they may see a patient who has a history of one, but is now a healthy weight, and not adjust their language accordingly. That is why I find the above on instagram very helpful. Priya Tew is another one - they aren't too militant in the HAES which can sometimes feel a bit too bigger jump for someone with AN.

Think about other ED behaviours like exercise or self-care / self-talk, but it is worth checking in with yourself about whether these have crept back in. Are you able to eat without doing certain activities to 'burn off' what you have eaten, do you judge yourself for what you have eaten? Are you able to participate in social events without compensating later etc?

I am not sure if this has been much help as I very much struggle with being in limbo. I guess it was my muddled musings. Hopefully there are some parts which might resonate.

Sending you love and strength.

Thanks, @Havehope21, definitely helpful, I'll check them out for sure. :)

Best regrads to all of you.
E

@Havehope21 - thank you so much for your thoughts and all these resources. I will def check them all out. I need some more healthy people to take inspiration from

I wanted to encourage you to reflect critically on whether 5:2/IF is really the healthiest way of eating. There is no long-term evidence that supports these claims www.nicswell.co.uk/health-news/news-analysis-does-the-52-fast-diet-work and Michael Mosley is not qualified in dietetics; and even though he has studied medicine, he has never really practiced as a doctor and has mostly worked as a science journalist. That's the first thing. Secondly, in contract to very little evidence that 5:2 is beneficial for your health long-term, there is loads of evidence that says engaging in restrictive behaviours can trigger an eating disorder or a relapse.

I've suffered from severe restricted eating disorders and gone the other to full on binge eating. I would say following any type of 'diet' isn't helpful for you. You need to find a way of eating that us safe for you. Ignore whats in fashion and what everyone raves about and live your life eating what makes you happy and keeps you in your comfort zone.

Sorry about the typos.

You need to trust your gut on this one. If it was genuinely healthy you would know. I easily get trapped in various rules and before I know it I'm stuck again. I say this as an ex vegan who has also tried fasting (MM and otherwise). Honestly I would advise you to get help from an ED specialist - you (we) have kids who are watching and we can't have this behaviour passed on to them. I don't mean that as a guilt trip it's just that it's high stakes with little eyes watching us for what is normal.

If you are really interested in health I suggest immersing yourself in blue zones and the meditteranean diet, not restricting anything and doing movement that you enjoy. I say this with my logical head on as someone who has an MSc in this stuff. I appreciate it's easier said than done.

Oh and also wanted to share what my ED nurse told me - it's not about what's healthiest for 'them', it's what's healthiest for YOU. Fasting is never going to be healthiest for someone with an ED.

I mean absolutely all of this with compassion for you and without judgement xx

@BeanyBops @BusterGonad @coffeemonster28 You're absolutely right. And your ED nurse was right, too, @BeanyBops . 🙂

@Millie2008 So today I listened to an interview with dr. Laura Hill on Tabitha's podcast and also her venus flytrap explanation of EDs:
It's quite interesting and not as narrow as I first thought it was ... 🤔
I recommend watching.

So how did you, ladies, overcome obesophobia?
I think I'd need a lobotomy to get rid of it. 😏