Teen Eating Disorders - Thread 5

[myrtleWilson]

Welcome everyone,
Our last thread can be found here
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eating_disorders/4279530-Teen-Eating-Disorders-Thread-4?watched=1&msgid=111172926#111172926

That we're on thread 5 in about a year is a reflection of the incredible increase in mental health issues, including eating disorders amongst young people over the last couple of years.

With that in mind, we thought we'd try to include some resources that have helped us along the way to date. No one resource will be a panacea but hopefully this list will be a useful starting off point for any newcomers and a reflection for others. It is our first go at sharing a list of resources on a thread so it won't be perfect!

www.beateatingdisorders.org.uk

anorexiafamily.com/?v=79cba1185463

www.youtube.com/evamusby

www.youtube.com/channel/UCa7G1P5WQopVMc9qTSP_lgA

www.orri-uk.com

www.nhs.uk/mental-health/feelings-symptoms-behaviours/behaviours/eating-disorders/overview/

www.stgeorges.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Junior-MARSIPAN-Risk-Assessment-Framework.pdf

People to look up on social media
Hope Virgo
Ro-Recovering
James Downs
Cara Lisette
Adam Fare
BarefootRebel
Ilona Burton

Girlie hope Covid is not too bad for your DD

Betty - great news on a gain!

dark how are you doing?

I'd like dd to gain a bit more, ideally want to get to 105% wfh as think this gives us a bit of ley way. Im not sure how we're ever going to move to intuitively eating though as she is still so reliant on me to feed her and unable to make any sensible decisions for herself food wise.

My friend asked to meet me for a coffee this wend and it was really tricky to find a time that doesn't clash with meals or snacks. Reminded me that I'm still v much a carer rather than just a mum of a teen.

Enjoy your cocktail Myrtle 🍸

@Bettybarkalot123 is your dd vegetarian or vegan? Mine is vegetarian but also hates milk and yoghurt. I can at least use butter, cheese and cream.

Lunches have mostly been a hummus wrap or pitta and a coconut collaborative chocolate pot but yesterday I took advantage of being at home and she had a cheese toastie and some minestrone soup. I’m lucky in so much as it’s not about losing weight for dd and less about the calories as just not eating full stop so if she has to eat she doesn’t really care how many calories are in it. She was calorie counting for a while but again that was more a control thing (picking an arbitrary number and trying to stay under it) rather than actually caring about the calories themselves. I’m not sure I’ve explained that well!

Dinners so far this week have been pasta with veggie bacon, mushrooms and grated cheese; quorn southern fried bites with chips peas and seeetcorn; vegetable and halloumi casserole with a quorn sausage and cous cous; shakshuka with crumbled feta and ciabatta, 3 bean chilli with rice and grated cheese; bean burgers (with cheese), wedges and a small handful of spinach and a couple of cherry tomatoes. Lots of cheese! Tonight we’re having pork with creamy mushroom pasta so she’ll probably have another quorn sausage instead of the pork.

Not eating meat can make it harder to increase calories but yesterday I noticed that the meat burgers were under 200 calories while the bean burger was over 300 so that was a win.

@Lougle

I'm content that DD1 maintains on

Breakfast - cereal with full fat milk
Snack - any 2 from a selection (around 200-250 cals total)
Lunch - either a sandwich, crisps & chocolate bar, or a school lunch
Afternoon snack - as above
Dinner - whatever we're eating.

She's bobbed around from 53-55kg since July, with a few illnesses in there, so I know that her weight is maintaining even though her appetite has been hit and miss.

If she was to drop below 53 Kg, then I'd just reintroduce croissants for breakfast, or pancakes, etc., to pile a bit of weight on.

You dd’s food intake and quality is brilliant and a testament to you and your effort.

However if you were not to do anything, what would your daughter do?

Weight restoration is a tiny part of the equation. If the mental illness isn’t addressed, and soon as she leaves the house, she will revert to what she wants to do, and at university / moving out?

@myrtleWilson I hope you enjoyed your cocktails, what did you have? I love a mojito or a dark and stormy.

@Girliefriendlikespuppies i had a busy morning yesterday ferrying middle two children around and although I had preprepared dds snack and lunch and was able to pop in at snack time to make sure she was eating that I still found I was really anxious. Dp was getting home at lunch but when I asked him if she’d eaten all her lunch he shrugged and said he didn’t know, he’d just seem that she had heated and sat down with it. Luckily we have a ring camera that she was in eyeline of so I was able to watch back and see that she had eaten it all. I don’t think I’ll be leaving her over a mealtime again for a while though because it made me so worried

[quote Moomarre]@myrtleWilson I hope you enjoyed your cocktails, what did you have? I love a mojito or a dark and stormy.

@Girliefriendlikespuppies i had a busy morning yesterday ferrying middle two children around and although I had preprepared dds snack and lunch and was able to pop in at snack time to make sure she was eating that I still found I was really anxious. Dp was getting home at lunch but when I asked him if she’d eaten all her lunch he shrugged and said he didn’t know, he’d just seem that she had heated and sat down with it. Luckily we have a ring camera that she was in eyeline of so I was able to watch back and see that she had eaten it all. I don’t think I’ll be leaving her over a mealtime again for a while though because it made me so worried[/quote]
That’s wonderful news that despite her father not watching her and you not around, she still ate the entire food

That. Is. A. Very very. Good. Sign!

Yes she’s a vegetarian. She wants to be vegan but we’ve said no. That was actually one of the earliest warning signs for me. She prefers Oat Milk, but she does have cows milk for one snack per day. A nesquik chocolate shake.
She will eat eggs, tiny amounts of cheese, she used to love feta but now even that’s a struggle.

Falafel, couscous, wraps and hummus are all good for her. She will also eat gallons of soup.

Thanks so much for the good tips, tonight I’m doing a vegetarian toast, I’ll do her a bean burger or a quorn peppered steak.

@Reallyimeanreally2022

"You dd’s food intake and quality is brilliant and a testament to you and your effort.

However if you were not to do anything, what would your daughter do?

Weight restoration is a tiny part of the equation. If the mental illness isn’t addressed, and soon as she leaves the house, she will revert to what she wants to do, and at university / moving out?"

Her mental health is being addressed. She's on fluoxetine, a reducing dose of olanzapine, and has seen a psychiatrist graduating from weekly-fortnightly-three-weekly-monthly over the last 8 months.

She's having extensive support at school with therapy sessions built into her timetable and all school staff being made aware of developments.

She wouldn't eat well at all independently, but she's unlikely to be independent in the short, or medium term, and even long term she'll need support because she has learning difficulties that come with them a host of limitations.

But she's eating and she's asking for food, so I'm content with that for her right now. She's 17kg heavier than she was 8 months ago, so I'm grateful that her toes aren't purple and her spine doesn't show, and her heart rate isn't 144 bpm when she stands.

Those Coconut Collaborative pots are great with strawberries and we get the banoffee ones and add a banana. They’re tiny and 100 cals per pot.

Morning all
I’m so proud of DD. She has had one of her friends over for a sleepover last night (the first one she has hosted since she was diagnosed in May). Usually their sleepovers involve a takeaway of some sort and DD decided off her own accord on a KFC. She was really nervous about it but took it in her stride. She even went and got herself a Magnum from the freezer for dessert. I was actually not going to insist she have dessert as I know having “junk food” is such a big thing for her but the fact that she just went on got one without my asking her shows how far she’s come! I’m waiting to see what breakfast brings…

She also has a 16th party to attend next Friday. There will be alcohol there and she has asked me if I am okay if she has a few drinks. I nearly passed out! Not that I’m advocating underage drinking or anything but I’m gobsmacked that she would even consider drinking as in the past she has talked about the empty calories.

We’re having a bad weekend here. I’ve got a cold and feel so full of anger. I know I shouldn’t but I just feel so sad and angry. I can’t shake off the thoughts that maybe DD is lying and purging or exercising.. even if she is the rational part of my brain knows it’s the illness but I’m so exhausted with it all now. DH is a support but he gets away with work, whereas I’m here living and breathing it for 24 hours a day.
I feel sure now that there’s another reason that she’s not gaining weight has fast as she should. I feel so completely hopeless.

[quote Lougle]@Reallyimeanreally2022

"You dd’s food intake and quality is brilliant and a testament to you and your effort.

However if you were not to do anything, what would your daughter do?

Weight restoration is a tiny part of the equation. If the mental illness isn’t addressed, and soon as she leaves the house, she will revert to what she wants to do, and at university / moving out?"

Her mental health is being addressed. She's on fluoxetine, a reducing dose of olanzapine, and has seen a psychiatrist graduating from weekly-fortnightly-three-weekly-monthly over the last 8 months.

She's having extensive support at school with therapy sessions built into her timetable and all school staff being made aware of developments.

She wouldn't eat well at all independently, but she's unlikely to be independent in the short, or medium term, and even long term she'll need support because she has learning difficulties that come with them a host of limitations.

But she's eating and she's asking for food, so I'm content with that for her right now. She's 17kg heavier than she was 8 months ago, so I'm grateful that her toes aren't purple and her spine doesn't show, and her heart rate isn't 144 bpm when she stands.[/quote]
That is phenomenal

@Bettybarkalot123

I’m sorry I planted that seed
Although perhaps in long run for the best. I had this Illness for well I can’t bring Myles to think of the wasted years. And now with my niece

If I were you…. Accompany on every walk.
And bedroom door open at all times

Then when she gains a decent amount, she gets to walk alone and door closed

Honestly Betty it’s only natural to have down days. We are here living this drudgery day in day out. It’s all consuming but (dare I say it) also so very very boring. It sucks the joy out of everything. And you’re right in that our DH’s get to step away from it now and then whereas we are living and breathing it. It helps to focus on the here and now. Each meal at a time. I find if I try and think too far in to the future, that’s when I start to dwell on the get this illness has taken from us.

I really would say that don’t assume that your DD is doing any of that stuff. Of course you should remain hyper vigilant but ultimately you know your daughter better than anyone on here. I genuinely think the reason you aren’t seeing really great weight gain is down to the lack of fats in your DD’s diet. It wasn’t until DD was consistently having between 2300 to 2600 calories EVERY day that we saw consistent weight gain.

@Bettybarkalot123 I can almost guarantee that for your DD it's the low animal fats that's the issue. A vegetarian diet is hard to gain on.

Have you seen Eat This Much?

www.eatthismuch.com/diet-plan/3000-calorie/vegetarian/

You can set it to vegetarian, tell it how many calories and, I think if you sign up for an account, tell it what you won't eat.

Don't lose heart - you're challenging the ED and she is gaining. Before DD1 started on olanzapine she was gaining 200g a week.

I think I should step away from this thread

My dear is that many of you seem to be approaching this as a physical condition ie she’s not gaining weight because not enough fat.

When in my experience, as a sufferer, the physical consequences are only the side effect of the true mental health condition. So without that being at the forefront of your mind, always and every day (every meal and snack in fact!) you are essentially putting a plaster over a cut artery

My fear that should say

@Bettybarkalot123 I'm sorry you're feeling so overwhelmed- it is completely understandable. I agree with roller that the body will use energy to repair and heal so it may not be the case that she is purging or exercising. You said she likes soup - have you seen Amy's kitchen brand - there are some good calorific options - one of them was 350 plus for a can which is good going for vegetarian. They're not cheap but got us through a tough patch.

Night out was lovely- got home at 1am! We ate, drank and danced. Was so fabulous to see Dd in her non anorexia world - full of confidence and happiness - so many people know her and people spontaneously tell her how pretty she is. I think the memory of last night will help me in our not so great days.

Really we aren’t just approaching it as a physical condition. We all see every single day how much of a mental illness it is. But at this stage the most important thing for our DD’s is to get the weight on and get their brains and bodies nourished. Once their brains start to repair then (hopefully) some of the mental aspects will diminish. But not all of them. And that is where therapy and/or medication comes in to play. My DD has been seeing a private psychotherapist weekly since she was diagnosed despite CAMH’s telling us that it was pointless until weight restored as their brains are too poorly to engage with therapy.

@Rollergirl11 don’t be sorry. You’re right it’s definitely a possibility. I think I’m just feeling very tired and run down. I think the others are right too, it’s the animal fats that I need to increase.
Going to head out for a food shop now and really step up the next week, as well as taking sensible steps like joining dd on her dog walk and keeping an eye on her in between meals.
Will check out Amy’s Kitchen soup .. thanks for the suggestion… the food shop takes three times as long now as I’m analysing everything for calories, trying to max where I can.
We did have a plus this morning- we now have a new snack/breakfast item.. a pikelet (?) with honey!
I’m just feeling down miserable with a cold.
Thank you all for the advice, it’s so helpful.

@Reallyimeanreally2022 I think it's difficult if you have history, but if you read back over the last 5 threads, you'd see that the posters here are on a journey. We shouldn't have to state in every post that we're aware of the psychological factors that drive EDs. @Bettybarkalot123 is despairing that despite her best efforts, her DD is not gaining. We're simply trying to help her make every mouthful count, because regardless of what's driving it, it's the physical impact of the ED that will kill our children, not the psychological.

To get psychological help you have to be alive. Also, most CAMHS won't address the psychological until a child is weight restored, so that's the vital thing.

really I appreciate your insight as someone with lived experience of this illness, however I think you are completely wrong to suggest we are treating this as a physical illness. Reading any of these five threads will show you we are acutely aware of the mental health issues - we've shared stories of self harm, of hallucinations, of rage and anger, of deception, of depression, of raging dysmorphia, of having to stop school, miss a-levels, of utter bewilderment of how to support our dc out of the dark dark spots are children are in. We also know that we and they cannot attempt to tackle this until they are cognitively able and to get to that point they have to be weight restored (and then some). I think your last comment was actually incredibly hurtful and ignorant

@Reallyimeanreally2022 sorry - the don’t be sorry was aimed at you. You’re advice is extremely valuable, don’t apologise.. I’m just having a bad day.
I totally get what you mean about the physical/mental thing. This is the dilemma we’re stuck in.
DD isn’t in school and her mental health is deteriorating day but day, she insists it’s because she’s not in school and she says she thinks she will eat more if she was in school and therefore happier! Camhs have said at 80% wfh her weight is too low to be in school. We’re totally torn!
We also saw a huge downturn when she broke up for the summer hols so maybe she has a point.

Really all the evidence out there on anorexia shows that food is the single biggest determinant in recovery. Quite often weight gain alone is all that's needed, I have seen this to be true in my own dd and I know others on this thread have also seen improvements in their child's mental health with weight gain.

Also anorexia is most definitely a marathon not a sprint so being able to focus on the illness in stages is important, the first stage has to be weight gain to restore our kids to a physical state that's not life threatening.

Betty I think it's normal to feel angry, I have days where I'm raging with life, my dd and/or myself. I get angry at the unfairness of it all, I get angry at society for pushing the thin is better ideology, I get angry that my dd isn't able to push herself harder to recover. Plus a million other things that this illness has stolen from dd and I.

We're only human and this illness is infuriating to try and navigate.

Thanks everyone for your reassurance. I think I’ve just hit a bit of a wall! I’ve been shopping, got lots of meals planned and will crack on. I think I just felt like some kind of monster for feeling angry towards her!