Thoughts about the future with DE baby

[sweetpea2000]

This is my first time posting on here. I’ve joined because I’m considering donor egg IVF. It’s so helpful reading people’s stories on here.

I’m just thinking through what it would mean for the future.

I think I’d look at UK treatment, so the child can request details of their donor when they turn 18. With DNA ancestry and social media, it seems likely that children conceived now via ED will make contact with their donor and other genetically related siblings (I actually hate the idea of them being called siblings!) once they reach 18.

It seems to me that many teenagers question their identity anyway and may push against their parents. I’d be really scared of this causing problems.

From what I’ve read, studies into the effect of egg donation in early childhood show that DC children are just as healthy, and the bond with their mother is just as strong . Especially when the child is told from an early age and it is discussed often.

There aren’t really any long term studies, as I guess egg donation has not been commonplace for long enough. There is a lot online from DC adults who seem to really resent the process, largely from families where it wasn’t disclosed early. I find it scary that so many DC adults seem to be against it altogether, and seem really damaged by it. How do you make sense of that?

There are so many heart-warming stories of parents who have taken the DE route thoughtfully and lovingly, and have great experiences of raising DE babies.

But I’m concerned about what will happen 18 years down the line. I worry it would be fine when they were young, but feel like a ticking time bomb as they become teenagers.

I also worry about disclosure – who will know, how to balance privacy and secrecy. I would feel strongly that the child should be able to control who knows their story, but can imagine it would get complicated.

There is so much bullying on social media etc. for kids now, it’s hard to imagine what teenage life will be like 15 years from now. But I’d obviously hate for them to be stigmatised or bullied.

I did read somewhere that DC is becoming much more common (among hetero, same sex and single parents) so may just be much more accepted and less of an issue in 10 or 20 year’s time, which is a reassuring thought. Attitudes to family life have already changed so much.

It would be a shame to close down this opportunity to have a baby out of fear. I know there’s only so much we can know about the future, and this goes with parenting of any child!

I’d really love to hear from DE parents, and anyone who has been through the counselling process for DC and might be able to shed more light on this.

Sorry meant Eggcellent! Can't edit...

@Carajillo That is very kind of you to say, I have actually really enjoyed this thread. It’s not only lovely to hopefully be useful to others, but I found it made me revisit a lot of old emotions and questions I had previously with fresh eyes. I didn’t realise how important that is until I did it iyswim, and it is something I think I will try to keep up as my son grows up.

I have some questions about embryo donation and your path to motherhood if you don’t mind!

What made you decide to have treatment in Spain? Are the laws around donation the same or different?

What was the experience like having treatment abroad?

Are your children aware of their conception story and if so have they asked you many questions, do they want to talk about it often and are they open with their peers about it?

Also, in regards to your webinar - are you open about your identity with things you post about your experience? I feel as though I would like to write something (not sure what just yet!) about my experience as due to my age I felt resources are limited, but I am uncertain about it due to my son possibly being identifiable as he gets older and how he would feel about this. If you are open about your identity, how do your children feel about this?

Thanks! :)

Hi Eggcellent,

Happy to answer the questions!

What made you decide to have treatment in Spain? Are the laws around donation the same or different?
I had 3 own egg ivfs and miscarried all 3 pregnancies and was then around 44 years old. I was advised to move on to donor eggs. 14 years ago the waiting lists in the UK were 2-5 years and I couldn't wait! The law on anonymity had not yet changed in the UK and Spain was the only country offering no waiting list. I had connections with Spain and that was also something that appealed.

The law in Spain is that all donation is anonymous and most clinics only give you the age and blood group of the donors. This is the only information my children have and it is not enough!

What was the experience like having treatment abroad?

The clinic was very professional but the significance of anonymity and lack of donor information only became clear once I had my children. it has affected them very much as they want to know more about who they are and who their donors are. They also want to know if they have any siblings.

Are your children aware of their conception story and if so have they asked you many questions, do they want to talk about it often and are they open with their peers about it?

I started telling my children their story from birth I used the resources from the Donor Conception Network to continue the story. I brought up the subject regularly and talked about it often with them. As they got older they had questions about not having a dad and their conception and I have tried to answer these as honestly as possible.

They go through times when they want to talk and times when they don't. When they were little, I took responsibility for telling others and their primary school for example. I have always been open and honest, especially as I am a single mum and it is obvious my kids don't have a dad.

From about age 9, my children started telling other people about their conception. However, from secondary school they have chosen which friends they tell themselves with support from me still. My daughter still hasn't told some friends.. she is a teenager going through teenage stuff and is pretty self conscious!

My children ask me lots of questions and some of them are very hard to hear. My daughter is going through quite an angry phase about my choice to use an anonymous donor and the fact that she has no information. She has recently done a DNA test to try and find donors and siblings and to learn who she is.

Also, in regards to your webinar - are you open about your identity with things you post about your experience? I feel as though I would like to write something (not sure what just yet!) about my experience as due to my age I felt resources are limited, but I am uncertain about it due to my son possibly being identifiable as he gets older and how he would feel about this. If you are open about your identity, how do your children feel about this?

It is slightly different for me as I worked in the field of Donor Conception for many years and so therefore have been completely public about it. It is a balance and you need to feel comfortable to do this!

My kids are used to it! They are a bit bored by it all to be honest! However they really enjoyed going to the DCN conference and meeting with other DC kids and they know quite a few.

Hope that is helpful!

C x

@Carajillo Thank you for such detailed answers!

It’s really interesting what you say about the laws at the time being the same - that’s not something I’ve ever considered before. Perhaps this is why opinions differ between older and younger DC people - they may not have the choice to meet their donors.

Do you think you would have gone ahead if you didn’t have connections to Spain? Or was it just a happy coincidence?

In regards to UK waiting lists - I was also told the wait would be around 5 years from referral, but that I needed to have been trying for 2 years before this so it doesn’t sound like there’s been much change there!

Thank you for your honesty about how your children feel about the use of unknown donors. I am sorry that you are facing some tough questions, but the fact that they are asking them shows that you’ve created an open and safe environment for them to be able to discuss their emotions.

I do often wonder about the perks and pitfalls of anonymous vs non-anonymous donors. Although my son will be able to access info about the donor I used, she may not want to meet him or he may be left feeling unfulfilled by their meeting. I did read an interesting article by a woman who was pleased that the sperm donor her mother used to conceive her was anonymous as it felt it took the decision on whether or not to contact him out of her hands and she was therefore able to put it out of her mind.

I wonder how much the ‘traditional’ family model comes into play with children deciding to tell friends. To the outside world, my DH and I look like any set of other young parents - my son would never be questioned about his family structure in this sense so he could easily choose not to tell people. If I were a single parent like yourself or in a gay relationship, these types of questions would not doubt be more prevalent. I wonder how much this shapes the DC child’s interest in their conception.

Did your daughter have any success with the DNA test?

I have been considering going along to a DCN conference but sadly the cost was prohibitive. Once all the current madness has settled down I hope to be able to attend one.

Could you tell me a bit about what sort of things go on at a conference?

I think you are right about balance in terms of how public you are. We will of course discreetly tell his school etc to ensure that he can talk about it freely if he wishes and that he isn’t shut down by ignorant (albeit well meaning) comments from staff if he does bring it up.

Social media is one that concerns me. For example, what if the donor tries to contact/find him before he is 18 etc. I am not sure how I would feel about this. I suppose it would depend on his personality, maturity, etc. But it is worth considering. Have you encountered anything like this?

May I ask how your family have reacted to you using donor conception?

Thanks!

Hi @Carajillo (Lucia),I actually watched your webinar after it was recommended by someone in this thread – thank you!

Can I add a couple of questions too?

When you say your children would have liked more information about their donor, what would they have liked to know? As far as I’m aware, under the current UK system of identity release, children don’t have much more information than that growing up either. I don’t think they get the letter/ pen portrait unless requested at 18. Do you happen to know about that?

I assume you told your family and friends, as you were single. Was everyone generally supportive? And how did you deal with it if not?

What kind of reactions did your kids get at school when they shared about their conception?

Do you think they have any shame or uncomfortable feelings about their conception? Or do you think they share less at secondary school just for privacy, but are comfortable within themselves?

When you say your daughter has some questions about her conception that are hard to hear, would you be willing to share some of them? And how you respond to them?

Do you think it’s important for your kids and family to know others from the DC community?

And finally, would you say that the DC element is a defining part of your families life, or does it feel less significant now your children are older?

Thanks so much in advance!

@Eggcellent29 thank you for your wishes. I remember earlier on in my journey you replied to my posts too and I am really grateful for the support. I will update how we get on with our first cycle. Very excited. I really enjoyed the conversation between you and @sweetpea2000 and @Carajillo. I am in initial stages but we are really grateful for the DCN resources available. Part of me also wants to speak out as I think in general there isn’t enough awareness about fertility and it really being part of woman’s health check much earlier on. In my case I never paid attention, always wanted to have a family but there was still time and had I known what I know now 10 years ago I would have made other choices or planned things in a different way and would have even donated myself if my eggs were that good, which is so if at this moment. Again I could have had the same challenges earlier on but at least I would have been better aware. What you’re guys doing is amazing as this support and openness here helps so many. I was very lucky to come across this site when I really struggled and from them I started exploring DCN and the idea of egg donation. Thank you.

So far in the UK, the first ID release children will not have a chance to contact their donors until 2023 so we do not know what that will look like. ID release donor is a pretty new concept. Clearly people have had known donors and other DC children, especially in the US, have traced their donors now via commercial DNA. It is a really mixed bag. Don't forget egg donation has been around for about 30 years, so there are many grown up DC adults who were egg donor conceived!

Differences clearly exist in those who were not told and found out in traumatic circumstances or even by doing a DNA test. Many of these people are very proactive in searching for their donors and siblings understandably. However, many parents and teenagers cannot wait til 18 to find their siblings and donors and parents are tracing these relatives from the very beginning regardless of whether the donor is anonymous or ID release. It is an enormously complex issue and a lot is going on behind the scenes! Of course, not all DC people are curious, nor do they want to find donors or siblings. BUT they would like the chance to do so if they want which is why a known or ID release donor is ethical in my opinion if it is possible. However, I clearly understand why this is not always possible. That is why openness, respect, honesty from the beginning go a huge way to helping a child be at ease with their story.

Do you think you would have gone ahead if you didn’t have connections to Spain? Or was it just a happy coincidence?

Yes because that was my only chance. I couldn't wait 5 years as I was 45 and already had 6 miscarriages with own eggs and double donation. The Spain bit was a very happy coincidence! We have embraced Spain and we have visited together and my daughter and I both speak pretty good Spanish!

In regards to UK waiting lists - I was also told the wait would be around 5 years from referral, but that I needed to have been trying for 2 years before this so it doesn’t sound like there’s been much change there!

This is not correct thank goodness! Waiting lists in the UK can be as little as 4 months but are rarely more than a year now. You do not need to have been trying at all if you are with a private clinic.

Thank you for your honesty about how your children feel about the use of unknown donors. I am sorry that you are facing some tough questions, but the fact that they are asking them shows that you’ve created an open and safe environment for them to be able to discuss their emotions.
Thank you so much! That is really kind of you!

I personally do not think there are any pitfalls in having an ID release donor! You just don't know how your child will feel. The things you can control are they way you bring up your child with openness, respect and honesty. Talking openly and often and supporting them even when they have difficult feelings! Don't forget there is a lot of talking and developing before 18, time to prepare for the scenarios involved in potentially not meeting the donor. Your child may be more interested in siblings? You may want to initiate this contact before 18...

It is absolutely true that hetero couples generally don't have an express reason to reveal donor conception from their appearance, unlike solo or gay parents. In a way this makes it harder to initiate the telling! My children first realised they didn't have a dad at age 2 and that led on naturally to explanations about their conception (age appropriately)!

Did your daughter have any success with the DNA test?
Well the DNA test revealed her ethnicity which has made her enormously happy. She only had the age and blood group of her donors and just wanted to know a bit more about where they came from. She found out she is 46% Eastern European/Russian, 36% French, 13% Spanish. No English at all!! No relatives popped up though. As a teenager issues of identity have come to the fore and this is very important to her.

The DCN conference is a great place to meet other parents and potential parents. They have various speakers including donor conceived adults and experts etc. They also have individual groups for people at all stages of conception etc. In addition they run children's workshops etc. It's where my kids have met other kids like them!

Social media is one that concerns me. For example, what if the donor tries to contact/find him before he is 18 etc. I am not sure how I would feel about this. I suppose it would depend on his personality, maturity, etc. But it is worth considering. Have you encountered anything like this

Yes, I have encountered this. While there are many families just getting on with life whose DC children and young adults are not that bothered about finding genetic relatives, there are loads who are actively seeking their donors/siblings. There are also donors actively seeking their offspring. Don't forget that even now, the majority of parents do not tell their children they are donor conceived! (worldwide)....

I am a child of a single parent so it wasn't a big thing for me to become one! My family were delighted for me! I went though a very tough time to become a mum with 6 losses so my family just wanted me to be happy. They have embraced my children with no issues at all!

C xx

Hi Sweetpea,

In the UK, you as the parent get non identifying information like physical characteristics, education, interests etc. You also should get a pen portrait/letter although some clinics are not following guidelines, but that is the UK law and you are entitled to this. My children only had age and blood group of a man and a woman and nothing more. As they grew up and asked things like 'what colour eyes did my donors have' and 'why am I so tall' etc. I simply had nothing to give them and it made a very big difference to them. They assumed their donors were Spanish, but the clinic would not tell us. Now we find out they had one donor who was Eastern European/Russian (probably). I have since found out that many Spanish clinics use Eastern European migrants as egg donors. Even with simple information, children can understand where they come from and many want to know.

All family and friends were very supportive. I have always felt comfortable being open, but I am also circumspect and don't automatically tell people who do not need to know!

What kind of reactions did your kids get at school when they shared about their conception?

At primary school the issue was not having a dad so they got a bit of mild bullying about that. I was able to communicate with their teachers throughout primary school so that they could support them with any questions. They were generally met with confusion when they talked about being donor conceived later in Primary, but their peers just accepted it and to be honest, children have many more important things to think about at that age! (They also have lots of kids confusing donor with doughnut, so that led to some hilarity!).

Do you think they have any shame or uncomfortable feelings about their conception?
I don't think they have shame, but they are different and that encompasses feelings of pride and well as loss (of a dad for example). Children take their lead from us as parents, so if you are proud and positive about their conception, they will tend to absorb this.

Or do you think they share less at secondary school just for privacy, but are comfortable within themselves?
My daughter shares less at secondary school as she is a teenager and it is not something she thinks important to mention, especially as there is a really diverse cohort of kids with single parents and unusual family structures! She is very self conscious! She is also very aware that this is now her information and she is entitled to privacy of course!!

When you say your daughter has some questions about her conception that are hard to hear, would you be willing to share some of them? And how you respond to them?
She is struggling with the fact that her family are not genetically related to her and is sad about that. She would like to share genes with me and we have worked through that. It takes a long time for children to really understand anything about donor conception which is why it is good to keep talking all the time!

She is really angry that I didn't use a known or ID release donor or had more information because she doesn't see why the onus should be on her to find out more and submit DNA etc. That pisses her off and she asked me why she couldn't have know these important people, her genetic parents, from the beginning.

The way I have handled this is to listen without judgement and to ask her how I can help her. I have apologised for the things that have hurt her but told her I do not regret going to Spain as I wouldn't have had my children and they are the world to me. Doing a DNA test was one of the ways she asked me to help.

This is my story and this does NOT mean your children will be like this, but they may. However, this is only a small part of our daily, normal life. Personally, because we have been open since the beginning, I really appreciate the fact that we can talk and be open no matter how hard these feelings may be.

BUT I am my children's mum and there is no other mummy! We love each other and day to day, we are getting on with it like any other family.

Do you think it’s important for your kids and family to know others from the DC community?
Yes, absolutely critical, especially as they get older. DCN is great for this!
And finally, would you say that the DC element is a defining part of your families life, or does it feel less significant now your children are older?
It is a fundamentally important part of our life but it doesn't define us. Significance waxes and wanes throughout life and events. It is important as they get older and can now express independent feelings so it is at the forefront right now. Not so much when they were little, then a bit more starting school.

Best,
C xx

Thanks @Carajillo! That's really helpful.

Just wanted to add that in my case I used embryo donation as a solo mum so my children have no genetic connection to me, but many people obviously have children who have a genetic relationship with the other parent in a couple and that also makes a difference!

C xx

Hi, this is a really interesting discussion. I am having donor egg IVF next month, and have been wondering about a few of the things brought up here.
I am intending to be open with the child about their conception from the beginning, but I want to make it as little of a big deal as possible, as really they will be our child, grown by me, brought up by us as a family, so DNA is just a small part. It is interesting to read how children are with this as they get older.
My question is, how do you think a DC child will be if they have naturally conceived siblings? Could there be issues from this and how would I deal with it? Has anyone else on here been in that situation or known anyone who has?

Welcome to the chat @Cleozeta!

First of all, best of luck with your cycle next month! I remember it being a very exciting but also very scary time - how are you feeling about it?

I do not have any non-DC children, but am now facing a question of whether I should use birth control or not as unassisted conception is unlikely but not impossible. I would love more children but am unsure how any ‘natural’ pregnancy and child would affect my son.

So I will be watching for responses with interest!

I was also wondering if anyone is able to enlist the help of a genetic parent to add to the conversation? It may make for an additional view point.

Would a discussion around this be of interest to you ladies? I am wondering out of curiosity if my DH’s response was typical or if sometimes it can be more complicated etc, but don’t want to take the thread off topic if it’s not of interest!

Hi @Cleozeta - how exciting that you are beginning your cycle so soon. Will be rooting for you. I would also be interested to hear of others' experiences blending 'naturally' and donor conceived children. I think this is something that will happen more and more as people turn to DE for secondary infertility.

@Eggcellent29 - I'd also be interested to hear from genetic parents. Can you elaborate on how your DH feels?

Hi @Cleozeta!

I would definitely recommend joining or talking to the Donor Conception Network as they have many 'mixed' families (those with naturally conceived and donor conceived children) in the Network who would be happy to talk about their experience.

DCN also produce a book especially for you call 'Mixed Blessings' which you can buy here www.dcnetwork.org/products/product/mixed-blessings and they run workshops for parents thinking about using donor conception to complete their family. (The book is also available as a pdf).

Clearly there are issues involved when using donor conception and mixed families so it is good to maybe have some counselling? This will be provided free if you use a UK clinic.

Here's a story from a mixed family couple which may be interesting

www.dcnetwork.org/story/mixed-blessings-natasha

Best
C xx

Mind if I join you ladies? I'm considering using donor eggs, and currently find myself asking all the same questions I'm reading you guys work through on this thread. Absolutely no one to talk to about this in my life. Just as I come to terms with one aspect of it, another uncertainty pops into my head.
For now I'm just going to catch up with your posts.

Thank you 🙏

@sweetpea2000 Of course!

I’ll give the general jist of answers he gave to questions I had at the time and if anyone wants me to ask him anything specific, just let me know!

Generally, he is pretty laid back about it. When we were going through treatment, he was more concerned with my wellbeing that whether or not I had a genetic link to our embryos as my emotional link was strong. He said that when I was pregnant he didn’t really think about it, and that the idea that the baby I was carrying wasn’t ‘mine’ just didn’t work for him, he saw the love and care I already had for our son and that was all that mattered to him as that’s what makes a Mum.

I was worried that he would consider our son to be a baby he had ‘with another woman,’ particularly if the donor does become part of our lives when our son is older. He looked at me like I was mad and said the thought hadn’t crossed his mind. I asked how he would respond if the donor brought this up (because she may well do or see it this way!) and he shrugged, told me he would tell her directly that that was not the case, not to confuse our son with incorrect terminology and move on.

So he was never really fussed!

Hello @Heart4! Welcome to our little group! You are, of course, more than welcome to join us and ask any question or air any difficult thoughts that you may have. It is very hard to face something so life changing and not be able to talk about it openly, for whatever reason, in your ‘real life.’

What aspect are you facing at the moment?

@Eggcellent29 your partner sound very laid back and pragmatic about it all, which is great. Thanks for sharing. Do you have much information about your donor so far?

@Heart4- welcome, and feel free to share where you are at with this, if that's helpful.

Hi, thanks for all your input ladies! It's great to have a place where people are in the same boat.
Sometimes I worry I may be being selfish going for DE, as I am already blessed with 2 beautiful children, however, 3 years ago we decided we'd really love a 3rd to complete our family. We had 2 MC and then sadly a stillbirth in April this year. We have found out that our baby had a genetic condition, which caused his death at 33 weeks. We so desperately need to fill that hole, but cannot take a chance on another natural pregnancy in case it happens again, plus at 43 natural conception is unlikely to happen again, so we have chosen to go straight for donor egg. I do feel selfish, but I really need this. To at least try.

@eggcellent29 your husbands response to everything is so lovely, he sounds very understanding and loving.
My husband has been great about it all too, although part of me worries that he is going along with it for my sanity, as his mother suffered lifelong mental health issues after a stillbirth. He has been amazing and supportive though, and will of course be the genetic father if we are lucky enough to be successful.

@sweetpea2000 He is pretty laid back! I think that seeing the pain I was in after being told out of the blue without explanation that I couldn’t have kids when I was so young made him very flexible towards how our family would come to be. He just wanted me to be out of that pain.

@Cleozeta Your story has so much pain, I am so sorry for your loss. Losing a baby at any time is a pain that you just can’t explain, but as late as 33 weeks is so so so unfair.

I don’t think you’re being selfish at all. There is this idea from some people (usually people who have not faced infertility) that if you cannot conceive without assistance you should just accept it or adopt. This is complete and utter bullshit. We have an innate, uncontrollable desire as human beings to have children. Just because they come into our lives in a way that some people can’t understand does not mean that we are selfish, that our bond is any less, or any of the other ridiculous crap that people come up with.

It seems unlikely that your husband is just going along with things here - IVF is an expensive and emotionally difficult process, it’s not really something you can just go along with! Even if he may feel influenced to do it more because he loves you and wants you to be happy - but is that a bad thing? I wouldn’t say so. You already have children together so it’s not like he doesn’t know what he’s in for with a new baby! 😆

@Cleozeta so sorry to hear of everything you've been through.

I don't think it's selfish to want to extend your family further and have another little one; it sounds natural to me. Wishing you lots of love and luck.

Hello Clozeta,

I am so sorry for your loss. It is completely understandable that you wish to continue your journey and have another baby, this time using donor eggs.

I would say that one of the most important things is for you and your husband to have counselling before proceeding just to address your grief and to help you to be in the best place to welcome a new child using donor conception. If you are with a UK clinic, you will get free counselling or you may wish to access a private specialist counsellor.

DCNetwork has a list of BICA counsellors and if you give their helpline a call, they can find one near you. 020 7278 2608.

The other considerations of course are the choice between ID release, open or known donor and anonymous. Again, careful thought needed here for your future child.

Best wishes,

C xx

Hello ladies, is the room for one more? I am currently having my first ever cycle of DE treatment in Spain and I have found reading this discussion really useful and interesting. I am having my treatment in Spain because I live here and for various reasons it’s not possible for me to travel for treatment. The fact that the donor is anonymous is something that I am quite worried about but that is the law here so I feel that I don’t really have a choice. The only information I have is her nationality, hair and eye colours, height, weight, age and blood group. I guess the best thing that I can do is to be as prepared as I can be for the possible consequences that this might have if we are successful.

@Cleozeta So sorry for your loss. I agree with the others and I don’t think it’s selfish at all.

Thank you all for the reassurance

@carajillo we had councelling with our local babyloss counceller which has been really helpful, we also had the mandatory councelling with our clinic relating to the donor egg conception. We are very happy with our decision and feel ready now.

@Carajillo
Dear Lucia, I listened to your live webinar at the time about donor conception and just wanted to say that I have not heard such a good presentation in a very long time! It was so excellent, I could not thank you enough for it. (I was the person asking the question whether you had written a letter to your children about your and their story.)
Sorry to hijack the thread for this, just came across your post and could not resist responding, because your story and yourself as a person had such a great impact on me.
We are a same-sex couple with a donor-sperm conceived child, I am the non-bio mum. I wish all of you a successful donor-conception journey!