Not wanting to see their dad- opinions

[Meg878o]

Please could I have other peoples views and perspectives on this.
Myself and ex have been split up a few months now, we have 3 primary aged children. He’s never been a very hands on dad, never taken them anywhere without me there, never really sat and played with them in the evenings when they were little or older. I have spoken to him about this over the years.
Since splitting up, daughter has refused to see him (10 yrs old) so she’s not seen him for over 2 months. Our two youngest (boys aged 5 and 7) have seen him for about 1 hour total in the last month. He tends to attempt to see them every other weekend and he has suggested stuff like zoos etc but they don’t want to go without me. Even when we were together they wouldn’t have gone without me, they wouldn’t have even gone to the local shops with him unless I was there. So the only thing the boys have been comfortable doing with him is going to the park a minute from our house and after half hour to an hour they ask to come back. Last weekend he didn’t bother seeing them, said he had to work and just messaged our eldest son saying I can’t see you this weekend. He’s messaged our oldest son asking if he wants him to take him to football practice this weekend, son replied saying no I just don’t really want to. So I will take him as I usually would. He’s messaged him saying do you want to see me on Saturday afternoon, we could go to the park etc. my son has just ignored it.
Please could I ask what your perspectives are on this, in terms of ex’s effort and historically how he’s been with the kids. And also what my son may be feeling from his replies…tia 🙏

It's not fair on your 7 year old that his father is messaging him like this. Does he have his own phone? He sounds like an utterly useless father.

I agree with the pp, there should not be direct communication with a 7 year old like this.

If your ex wants the DC to spend time with them then he heeds to build the relationship. Accept that they will only want small amounts of time with him now, as they are not used to it.

Thank you for your message. No he doesn’t have a phone, they message through an app on his iPad

At their ages a court would expect you to encourage a decent relationship.. In his defence it must be quite awful your dc don't want to see you.
When you were together he was happy you did everything I assume? Now things are different you ALL have to navigate a new routine. If he took you to court he would get decent access regardless of their opinions given their ages.. Helping the dc now would save you all the Hell on earth the court system is.. Ime.

A 7 year old should not have the means to allow ANYONE to message them, the device is irrelevant. FFS.

You and your ex need to discuss between you what a reasonable amount of contact is. And stick to it. Your kids are far too young to make adult decisions like that. He suggested the zoo - you say great, pick them up at 10. And you tell the kids that’s what’s happening.

Your kids are far too young to make adult decisions like that. He suggested the zoo - you say great, pick them up at 10. And you tell the kids that’s what’s happening.
Actually the court will take the 10yr wants into consideration (well, by the time a court appointment is available they will be old enough) so will not enforce it.

As for the two younger children OP only has to make them available, it will then be up to the ex to physically manhandle or cajole or bribe them into his car when he comes to pick them up. That's on him.

I agree with pp though OP, your ex should not have direct contact with the younger two, it should be through your phone.

Why won’t they fo without you?

you need to encourage this and reassure them it’s ok

You need to talk to your DH and arrange a schedule. You are both being very passive about this and in doing so you are creating a rod for your own back. They need to be in a routine where there is an expectation that they will see him at least every other weekend and preferably overnight and this needs to be communicated effectively to them. Don’t let him duck out of fatherhood. It’s not in their, or your, interests to let that relationship lapse. What if something happened to you that meant you couldn’t provided the level of care you’re providing? What if the lack of relationship let to him disinheriting them? Do you really want to shoulder all their expenses when they’re heading into adulthood? Contributions to Driving lessons, university, first home, etc.?

It's very hard. My DCs weren't bothered about spending time with their father when we split because he hadn't bothered with them when we were together!

PP says it must be horrible for him for his kids not wanting to be with him, but we reap what we sow! Kids aren't pets or robots to be shoved into the car and sent off without their consent.

If you went to court he may well get given official time with them but he'd still have the issue of them not wanting to go. Unless he's a monster he must surely understand that he needs to earn their love and respect and deserve his time with them.

You could help by explaining to the kids that he's trying ... as long as you believe he really is, and not just box ticking.

Tell him he needs to build a new relationship with them slowly.

Unless he’s abusive, OP and her ex need to work together to encourage contact. There shouldn’t be any need for manhandling.

I say this with kindness but not going to the shops without you even when you were together is a bit much. You need to encourage the relationship. As others have said, I don’t know why there is discussion around this. Why are the kids dictating the plans? ‘Dad is picking you up tomorrow to go to the zoo/park/cinema’ and that’s it.

My DP’s ex used to constantly say that the youngest didn’t want to come and see us (questionable) but once she got to ours she always had a whale of a time and now she has a great bond with her dad.

Actually the court will take the 10yr wants into consideration (well, by the time a court appointment is available they will be old enough) so will not enforce it
This is incorrect. A child has the right to have their voice heard. It doesn't mean the judge would rule their wishes. They must decide what they believe is in the best interest of the child. There are many reason why a child might not want a regular schedule to see one parent, but these might not be deemed to be good reason, or good enough to put balance the benefits of a relationship with both parents.

A judge can enforce regular contact with a parent even if they say they don't want to see that parent, especially at 10. It happens and not rarely. They might agree to a gradual contact arrangement and state one parent must attend a parenting class.

OP, do you think it is in your kids' interests to have a decent relationship with their father or do you think he's such a deadbeat dad that he has nothing to add to their lives?

Nothing you've said suggests that he's abusive rather than useless. So I would try very hard (and yes, you shouldn't have to try, but if you don't, it's not like he's magically going to become a competent parent) to encourage the relationship now because unless he moves very quickly to a position where he is capable of being an independent parent and sees the value of investing in his children, he'll probably fade out of their lives altogether.

First, I'd tackle the older one with him. Yes, her wishes are important, but imo it's not ok for her just to decide not to see her dad for 2 months. She's probably upset and confused and making a statement, but she needs to know that both her parents love her. Her saying "I don't want to see him" and you and him saying "Ok then, that's fine" is probably very confusing for her, when she's also being told that he still loves her. He needs to take her out regularly for a short high-value activity focused totally on her like taking her shopping, pottery painting or getting ice cream. Whatever she's interested in.

If he agrees, he could also take charge of doing the weekend homework with the kids. That way, he'll actually be investing in their education and keeping up-to-date with what they're doing at school, and it's one less task for you to do.

Remove the direct communication on the tablet, it's putting a 7 year old in the middle which is never acceptable.
Dad needs to work out tge plan with you.
He needs to step up and make more of an effort but doesn't look like he will.

I’d start by asking him to come at 10am every Saturday and take them to the park. Ask him to be really consistent and always turn up at the same time, to bring a water bottle for each of them and a snack.

Id reassure them, and him, that you’ll be at home and they can come back when they want to, but that it’s happening every week.

Id also ask him to ring once a week on your phone to speak to them. And I’d as a minimum make them say hi for 5 minutes.

If they all do that really consistently every week, then by the time the weather starts getting bad, they’ll feel comfortable with cinema or soft play etc.