International divorce

[appleandcarrot]

I am currently going through a divorce with my British husband, and we have two British children together. I am not a British citizen and currently hold a spouse visa, but I plan to apply for a family visa as the parent of British children. My soon-to-be ex-husband is living abroad with his girlfriend.

He initiated the divorce and has made a financial offer that I believe is significantly inadequate. My solicitor is currently reviewing and responding to this.

If he continues to make unreasonable offers and fails to meet our legal and financial needs, I would like to understand my options. Specifically, would I be able to relocate to my home country with my children, given that they hold dual nationality?

Can the UK family court require me to remain in the UK with the children, even though their father is living overseas and not providing sufficient financial support?

Yes if your ex dies not agree

of course the argument for his disagreement will carry less weight but you wouldn’t automatically be able to remove them and would need to follow proper channels

is the offer unreasonable based on the principles of divorce guidance or just lower than you want ?

To be honest, I’m not very familiar with family law in the UK, particularly when it comes to what level of financial maintenance I should reasonably expect for myself and my children. However, based on what I’ve seen so far, the offer seems very low compared to his income, and my solicitor has also indicated that I am likely to fall short financially.

My concern is that living in London is extremely expensive, and I’m struggling to understand why I should remain here without my husband, especially as I’m not originally from the UK. I also don’t feel comfortable relocating to a cheaper area within the UK, as I don’t have a support network here. Ideally, I would prefer to return to my home country where I have family support.

In these circumstances, I would like to understand under what conditions the family court might refuse permission for me to relocate with my children. I am worried about staying in the UK, exhausting my savings, and potentially facing financial hardship, particularly as my husband has already moved on and is living abroad with his new partner.

Could you also advise on the proper legal process I would need to follow if I wanted to pursue relocation?

Well finances are different to living arrangements

in regards child maintenance there are online calculators to determine legal requirements- 20% income I think for 2….. you can go onto the cms website and input information there

spousal maintenance, ie to you, is rare with courts favouring clean break. Depending on both your incomes and assets, plus reasonable needs a settlement would be derived. Unless he’s a very high earner or there are zero assets but with reasonable income, spousal is very unlikely

in regards removing the children you’d either need your ex explicit consent to remove and relocate the children or a court order following a specific issues hearing,

whether that is successful will depend on how it is in the children’s best interests and you’d need to demonstrate this

Put this all into AI op I think that’s what I would do

I'm not sure he can require you to keep living in the UK with your children when he no longer lives here himself.

I don't have any idea on the legalities OP, but it takes the pee if you have to stay in the UK because your ex says so when he's not even here himself. As PP said I would run your scenario through chatgpt , yes I know you cant rely on it 100% but that's what I would do!

Chatgpt reply:

If the father refuses, the mother can apply to the Family Court for what is commonly called:
“Leave to remove from the jurisdiction” (permission to relocate internationally). �
CJ Law
The court will decide based on the child’s best interests, considering factors like:
the children’s relationship with both parents
schooling and stability
the mother’s support network abroad
how contact with the father would continue
whether the move is genuine and well planned.
The fact that the father already lives overseas could be relevant, but it does not automatically allow the move.

My stbx earns approximately ten times more than I do, while I am currently on a minimum wage income. I previously had a higher-paying job, but I was unable to continue due to my pregnancies and childcare responsibilities. In addition, as my soon-to-be ex-husband is now living abroad, my ability to work full-time or pursue better opportunities is significantly limited.

My children are still in primary school and require a great deal of care and stability. What I struggle to understand is how it could be considered in their best interests to remain in the UK if their primary carer—their mother—is at risk of financial hardship.

In my home country, I would have the support of my family, including housing with my mother, as well as a wider support network of relatives and friends. In contrast, I have no meaningful support system here. I also have no access to public funds due to my immigration status, and their father provides very limited financial support.

Given these circumstances, would the court take my situation into account when deciding on a fair division of assets or appropriate maintenance? I am concerned about whether the outcome will properly reflect the significant disparity in our incomes and my role as the primary caregiver.

I also question whether it is fair or reasonable for the court to expect me to raise the children in the UK when their father does not live here and is only able to care for them for limited periods each year.

Honestly, I don't know. I just gave chat the circumstances you set out here and asked if you can take your children home to live, it gave quite a comphrensive answer but the bit I posted was what happens if your ex says no. I 100% agree with you though.

You can post this question in Legal @appleandcarrot .

I see. Thank you very much.

It’s not necessarily fair and you’d probably have a high chance of success in court of being able to remove your children and relocate

However, legally you still need his permission to remove the children from
britain despite him not residing here OR a court order granting permission hence you need to see a solicitor and look for a specific issues order ( to relocate the children)

Oh and re financial settlement the court would consider your husbands income, your income , your joint assets, and your needs and their aim is to look after the needs of the children as priority/ so you may likely be awarded higher % of assets and may be in spousal maintenance territory

There are 2 different questions.

1 is can you relocate home. The other is how much might you expect.

Your first port of call is to ask him to consent to you moving home with child. If he agrees then you dont need a court order. If he doesnt you need to apply for a court order. The factors you list all mean its likely to go in your favour but no one can say for sure without a lot more specifics.

As for money. Do you or he own a house? Have pensions/savings/assets?

Child maintenance can be worked out on cms calculators. Spousal maintenance is very rare but you may be entitled to more than 50 perxent of assets to reflect difference in earning potential.

I would really prefer to stay in London, where I work and where our children are settled in their schools and community. Moving to another part of England doesn’t feel right, as it would disrupt their education and friendships.

If it turns out that I cannot afford a reasonable standard of living here in London while providing for the children, I may have no choice but to consider returning to my home country. Life there would be more sustainable for me and the children, and I would have better support.

The reality is that my STBX could easily provide a comfortable standard of living for me and the children given his income, but he is choosing not to. If the court ultimately accepts his minimal contribution, then I would have no choice but to consider returning to my home country where at least I will be with my family.

Most of the family’s savings, property, investments, and pensions are under my STBX name, so I currently have very little of my own.

It doesn’t matter that they’re in his name
they’re still marital assets

so he’ll be made to do a disclosure and your solicitor will be able to question and scrutinise

if you can’t reach agreement it will go to court. But it sounds like there’s enough assets/income to provide for you to stay

As PP says.. it doesnt matter who's name they are in. They are marital assets. So you are entitled to 50 percent of them as a starting point.

Kindly you need to see a solicitor as your understanding of the system seems limited. You need actual numbers not general principles.

To clarify op is not entitled to 50% as starting point

op is entitled to

1. all assets. Held jointly or solely to be included in the pot fir division
2. a fair share . This could be less then 50%

however, based on needs, assets available, primary caring responsibilities for children, husbands income etc there should be a strong case for capital division in op favour ( and possibly spousal support as well as child maintenance)

Do you know if your STBXH would oppose you moving to your home country OP? Sounds like he wouldn't even be that bothered as long as he could have the same number of days with DC? Is there a document you could both sign showing that he gives permission?

If you have a support network waiting for you in your home country, to get you and your children through this hard bit, it sounds like you need to be there and it's something you deserve. Maybe you'd really love being a Mum there as I guess you started your motherhood journey in UK.

Obviously it wouldn't solve all your problems. Moving outside of UK jurisdiction might mean you have to give up some of the fight to get what you are entitled to financially from your ex.

Speaking as a mother abroad, I agree with you re: not simply trying to move to a cheaper part of UK. You don't have any support or infrastructure there, it would be like moving to another foreign country. You can't do this on your own.

There could well be an award of spousal maintenance to enable the children to not have their schooling in London disrupted.

I’ll be pushing for a fair outcome with my solicitor, within what the court would consider reasonable. His offer is very low in my view, and I’m not happy with it.

The marriage itself was difficult at times, and while there were issues that affected me personally, I understand that under the no-fault divorce system those points aren’t really considered in the financial settlement, which does feel frustrating.

For the sake of the children, I’m trying to keep things as calm and constructive as possible. I’ve always tried to shield them from any difficulties.

At the moment, my focus is on reaching a fair financial arrangement that properly reflects our situation. If that can’t be achieved through negotiation, I’m prepared to let the court decide.

I have also thought about the possibility of relocating to my home country if things become unworkable here, although I understand that would require the court’s permission and would be considered carefully in terms of the children’s best interests.

Overall, I’m just trying to approach this in a reasonable way while making sure I don’t accept an outcome that isn’t fair.

If you want to list overall
assets and incomes we might be able to give high level view on reasonable outcome expectations . Of course if you’re not comfortable to do that then ignore !

@appleandcarrot

First things first. Focus on going through divorce and getting the best settlement you can get. England is a ‘good’ country for divorce as family law here does try to provide for the W and takes into account your contribution and career sacrifice.
By the tine divorce is finalised there will be more record of father residing elsewhere, and you’ll see how it all is going.

I’d take legal advice first - but my guess that with father abroad and not seeing kids regularly - you can apply for ‘live with’ order. And then - you can move if you chose to.

You’ll also see how involved he is going to be. If not really involved - he won’t care if you move.

Depending on your country - ‘live with’ order may or may not even be necessary. And after a period of living abroad and not seeing kids much his claim will not be strong.

So - one step at a time, OP!

A lives with order does not give op permission to move abroad with the children If her ex does not agree , even if he doesn’t live in England or see the children. On the basis he has parental responsibility he must agree or op will need specific legal approval to remove the children from this country - and that’s not a lives with order

LIves with - does not, correct. However it still makes sense to start the process first do the financial settlement.

Then settle custody - a lot will depend on how the child arrangements would work.
If father tries to stay involved and travels weekly to see kids, etc. Or if he takes them
for holidays.

Lives with order is useful for the resident parent anyway, in the situation when other parent is abroad.

Realistically - when all dust settles - finances are settled and some sort of pattern is established with child arrangements, and there is a lives with order- it’ll become easier to figure out how to move IF that is what OP wants.
If H is really not involved (or not involved much), and lives abroad - he will not be likely to actually do anything if OP moves.

And in her place - I’ll simply then move and set up my kids in my home country. And then eventually apply for whatever needs applying.

Yes - strictly it’s not the ‘proper’ way, but it’s a grey zone. It’s not the same as taking away kids while other parent lives in UK. Not an ‘abduction’ that prevents a UK father from seeing kids, as father is not in the UK