Is this some sort of manipulation?

[namechange2313]

I need some external views on this situation. There is a lot going on so I will try and keep this as brief as possible.

I split with my ex 2 and a half years ago after lots of lying, cheating and gaslighting.
I noticed some subtle manipulation at the time. Things like 'I'm afraid what I will do if I haven't got you and the kids' and telling me 'I was crazy for thinking anything was going on with him and a colleague'.

I have had a hard few years because I have a health condition and two kids with significant needs which means I have been a bit slow putting my finger on a few things that all seem to be connected.

I'm just going to list a few of his behaviours. If someone could enlighten me to what these behaviours appear to be I would appreciate it. My brain still can't quite put a label on if it is anything more sinister than just really poor ways of communicating.

• He will not communicate with me directly. He speaks to my DD14 daily and then she will often come to me with the phone on loudspeaker saying dad wants to speak to you
• He makes comments to my daughter about me. Some have included. 'Your mum does over explain things'. 'I know you mum says she is unwell but I don't know if I believe it'. 'If it was up to me I wouldn't have made that decision that mum made'. She tells me these things because she feels uncomfortable but doesn't want me to say anything to him because he will be 'funny' with her
• He used to often say to my daughter 'I have opinions but I don't have a say in it' which couldn't be further from the truth. He doesn't take any responsibility or show any interest
• He also mocks my daughter by saying 'You sound just like your mum using big words. Just use simple words'

Just to add to the above he is lovely towards me when we are together. Overly nice. A bit performative to be honest which is something my daughter has also pointed out. She says she feels uncomfortable when she sees him communicating with me.

Is this another form of manipulation or am I overthinking this?

He's playing the victim to your daughter, he wants her attention and sympathy. Teach her to grey rock him, making non committal noises or changing the subject when he starts up with it. He's also triangulating, trying to create drama and get at you through her.

Of course, she is old enough to decide not to see him if she wants to.

Thank you. I only recently heard about triangulation but didn't know if this was that. I have been grey rocking for ages.

Its tricky with my daughter though because although she feels uncomfortable at times, she also worships him in many ways. It's a complicated relationship she has with him. She has even started saying she is not sure she can trust me and my decisions.

You have made me feel much more confident that this is toxic behaviour. Thank you

I'd seriously consider getting your daughter into therapy. His behaviour isn't child focused or healthy, he is consistently trying to cast doubt in your daughter's mind about her close relationships- you. She is doubting her connection with you, and is starting to doubt that gut feeling. These behaviours need to be discussed and healthy ways to communicate, put in boundaries and trust herself is really important... especially when she starts to have her own romantic relationships.

Thank you @BookArt55. I have been worried about the impact on DD. I can definitely see she is confused at times and I am scared it will impact her perception of healthy relationships.

She did have counselling last year and hoping to pay privately again this year. I need to get myself in as well.

It's so hard trying to process it all myself at a personal level but then seeing the impact it's having on her.

The worst bit is that even my own family can't really see it because it's lots of small moments and subtle things that have added up over time.

Op forget about trying to evaluate and explain/ label his behaviour- you can’t or you’ll drive yourself mad!!! FWIW while he’s leaning on your daughter too much and saying too much unfortunately it’s quite normal and I don’t think it’s mocking to tell her not to use big words and compare her to you. Let go the analysis and talk to a professional. Splitting up, no matter what people on mn say does effect kids- your daughter has had her life upended, her family have broken up, all you can both do is be there for her but try to get on with life but do try to stop trying to make sense of him, you’re both just very different people

With regards to the phone calls, I would just say “call me, you have my number” and hang up. Every time.

He thinks he is alienating his DD from you but of course she is seeing through this and he’s actually alienating himself. You could try pointing this out to him but it probably won’t land.

Try to minimise contact and push thoughts of him out of your head.

Whilst I agree that over analysing would drive me mad. I think that being confused by behaviour that is constantly putting me down is/was having a bigger impact.

I have been pretty much grey rock since our break up and mind my own business. A previous poster has mentioned triangulation and that fits. I had heard about it and felt it fit but I just don't fully trust my own instinct.

In terms of her about using certain words, If it's making her feel upset enough to mention it to her then yes it is mocking her. That's bad enough on its own and then when he adds 'just like your mum' it adds another layer that makes her think being like me is wrong in someway.

I do agree with having professional support though which is on my radar.

Yes, she is definitely picking up on his behaviour and making comments about the inconsistencies. I am glad she is able to work this out for herself. A bit of counselling will help her with some of the remaining confusion.

Im not going to point anything out to him, I know it wouldn't go well. My main aim was understanding his behaviour so I am not longer impacted by it. I do feel a lot lighter being able to name what it is. Makes a massive difference.

We are very low contact already so that helps a lot. He doesn't come in the house to pick the kids up etc.

I do need to ask him to communicate with me directly though. This week he changed pick up time last minute with my daughter and then rang my daughter a few hours later saying 'You didn't let me know if mum was ok with the change in pick up time'. She shouldn't have to deal with that.