Agreeing financial split - pensions

[Ashleyupnorth]

Quick question please regarding those who have agreed a financial split and therefore have managed to reduce legal fees. How did you agree on how to split your pensions without legal advice, particularly if there is a large difference in income/pension?

Thanks!

You need a CETV for each pension. However every £ in a pension is not worth the same as a £ in other assets so not like for like and can be complicated to work out how much pension is worth when compared to other savings, cash etc.

Normally pensions are made equal divorce with a pension sharing order.

Alternatively one person may agree to not have a part of their partners pension in return for more cash or larger share of the house for example.

if there is a large difference in income and pensions then you really need qualified advice especially as the value of pensions can be huge.

We got CETVs for both pensions. Added the amounts together and divided by two to see how much each was entitled to. We then deducted my pension pot from that figure and he gave me a cash settlement for the rest.
He did run the figures past a solicitor who said the figure was 'reasonable', which made me think I had short changed myself. 😂
He paid me off because he didn't want me to claim against his pension.

@Cantthinkofanewusernameffs my ex drew his entire pension fund down in the first 18 months post separation to ensure I couldn't claim anything. Then at financial hearing had the temerity to claim hardship as he lacked pension provision!

Have done this in Scotland with help of a solicitor but tbh could have done it myself. Basically we just used the CETV at separation date. Means my DB pension gets equated as a normal asset the same as anything else. Same with any DC pension,they just get thrown into the same pot. Less negotiation which is either a good or bad thing depending on your position. So I would say it does depend where you are.

Funnily enough, my separation agreement is almost ready to be signed and my wife's solicitor has one remaining ask which is for me to prove I haven't drawn down or transferred the assets in the pension to be shared. I don't think the system here in Scotland is necessarily better or worse but declaring the assets as at the date of separation does seem to prevent a lot of this kind of behaviour. I derisked a lot of my assets early on to make sure that I had the funds available at a future date to meet my obligations

Thanks all for your replies. I am really keen to get this started despite some wobbles. I have asked for my employer to complete a PD2 form (nhs). I am waiting for their response and completion of this and I will submit my form onto the NHSBA. It can take up to 3 months.

H has asked for a CETV from a government pension scheme as well.

In terms of where we are @Farside99 we haven't even submitted the divorce application yet. My DD is in Gcse year so ideally wanted to drag it out for some sort of completion once she had finished her GCSEs.

That's shit and shouldn't be allowed.
Like other PPs, I'm in Scotland so our CETVs were drawn up from date of legal separation. I didn't realise England was different.

@Ashleyupnorth We didn't submit a divorce application. We sold the house and split it 50/50 and worked out the pension division ourselves. I suppose it depends how amicable things are and if both parties can play fair.

Sorry, I meant which country.....I assume you are in England

Just for info we delayed telling my son we had separated (we agreed to separate the previous year) until he finished his highers this year and I don't think it was the wrong decision but we could have been moving on with things in the background. It's taken 4 months to get the separation agreement to where it is and we're notmevev that complex or fighting about anything, and my wife took forever to get her pension valuations before that. Put the house on the market a month ago and the market has just collapsed so realistically won't sell it now until spring. Plus my son was completely unfazed anyway.....

It's probably a good time to be starting to collect information as you will be able to move on with things in the new year such as selling or buying property when spring is starting to come in

How did this play out ? Was it addressed or did he get away with it ?

we haven't even submitted the divorce application yet. My DD is in Gcse year so ideally wanted to drag it out for some sort of completion once she had finished her GCSEs.

The admin side of a divorce (decree nisi/absolute) takes nearly a year due to court delays and the 20 week cooling off period (were you aware of this 5 month break?). The only thing you should not do is get the absolute before the financials have been signed off by a judge. You can pause it at any time (mine has been paused just before the absolute stage for nearly a year).

Getting pension cetv can take between 3 to 6 months. Your biggest stresser for DD is putting the house up for sale unless one of you is buying out the other. But you can definitely do all the legwork with everything else without her knowing.

@CloudPop The Judge was, to put it mildly, scathing. It wasn't taken kindly that he made a mockery of the system.

I was awarded all remaining assets, including another smaller pension fund and all house equity, bar circa £20k which went directly to his first solicitors who were threatening bankruptcy proceedings for non payment. It was a nightmare going through it, but fortunately I had a good legal team. It was a very satisfying outcome.

Op can you not see what your pension is worth on the sspa portal?

Thanks all for your replies
@Farside99 yes, i think its good now to set the wheels in motion in the background whilst DD is in the background. I suspect she won't be overly fazed either but we shall see.

I am aware of the 20 week cooling off period @LittleGreenDragons.

I am assuming even once the pension/split has been agreed it all needs to be done and agreed by a solicitor anyway? Am I right.

Hoping that either with a bigger amount of the equity for me I will be able to buy him out or he will stay in the home. I'm not sure yet.

@summitfever I have access to the nhsba portal. I find it very confusing as to what my projected pension would be. So many different terms on there. I just want a phrase that states this is your projected pension. Maybe I am reading it wrong. I am in the 2008 and 2015 scheme.

I am assuming even once the pension/split has been agreed it all needs to be done and agreed by a solicitor anyway? Am I right.
No. A solicitor will put it into legal speak so it can be presented to court but it's a judge who makes the final decision. If he feels it's unfair he will refuse to allow it even if you and DH agree. It's supposedly to stop coercive abuse.

Thanks @LittleGreenDragons . So, essentially we agree on what split is necessary, we then have to find a solicitor who then re-words it in legal speak and submits it to the court. Is that right? I have looked on Wikivorce and they offer (for a charge of course!) a financial mediation service so I am going to suggest this to the H.

@Ashleyupnorth I'm in Scotland, so it may be different. But we agreed a financial settlement and sorted it between us. We didn't do a pension sharing thing though, as ex paid me off. You might need that done through the courts.

@Ashleyupnorth . Your NHS pension is a DB pension. I'm guessing your STBXH is a DB too being local government? The value of a DB pension compared to a DC is important when pension sharing. You also need to consider that you can't take your NHS pension till age 65 for the 2008 and 67 for 2015, without a reduction for early payment. When is your H due to get his paid without reduction? If it's a younger age- say 60, that would need to be considered. Also consider how many years you both had in your pension before you got married/ lived together- this may be ring fenced and excluded from pension sharing.
You could look at getting a PODE report to look at variations and make sure everything is split equally. Think they cost between 1.5k and 3k which would be split between you and H.
Also, FYI my NHS CETV took 15 weeks. I did ring and start to hassle them after 12 weeks which seemed to do the trick.
The "Pensions advisory group" Guide to pensions on divorce 2024 gives some good info if you can face reading it! Good luck x

Thanks @Cantthinkofanewusernameffs and @MissmyoldLab . Lots of acronyms there that I've never heard of but I have been in my pension scheme for 17 years. H around 20.

Actually sat down last night and looked at figures. Even with me taking a larger proportion of the equity with no pension from him I still would not be able to afford to buy him out, it would be too much of a stretch.

I'm back at the 'place' where I either need to contemplate with H getting a mesher order till DD is 18 (2.5 years) or buy a smaller property and hope she will come with me.

In England and Wales:

You've agreed everything informally.

Solicitor will write up a financial consent order.- the legal agreement including your agreements plus clauses, laws etc) a d81 (overview high level of yours/his/splits), and form A (application to court).
You will both then legal advice. I.e. a sol to talk you through the consent order na explain what it means so a court /judge knows it's informed agreement.

Applications to court can take 12w and a judge will then seal it. (Approve it).
If not approved they'll ask you to visit just and just confirm. You maybe both have to write letters saying your happy with it, and no corrosion has happened and you've both had legal advice (no additional children have been born in the relationship).

Once you get the sealed order you action it
Usually pension sharing order is after 28 days. But court will confirm the dates have to be done by, i.e. cash transferred, pensions transferred, house sold, house transferred, equity buyouts etc, bank accounts closed etc.

This process can be about £1500 how you split cost is dependent on what you agree!
There's a seperate cost for divorce part.

As you both have goverment pensions youigjt want to consider a pension actualarual report as they aren't standard this can cost 2k-6k but there is also a free Pension Advisory Service you might want to speak to.

Think that's all x

Financial mediator will help you create a memorandum of agreement. You then will still need to the the above legal process a solicitor to make the financial consent order, d81, and form a.

Unless you use someone like Amicable who do a fixed fee service for everything! But I think they're pricey too.

We’ve just agreed between ourselves to be honest. It’s bad enough that the divorce cost nearly £600, without paying more money to solicitors.

@NurseRunner It may be that we do this too. Although will still need a solicitor to do the financial consent order etc though?

Yes if you want to do it properly then you should. I think you can get fixed fee online services if you’re in agreement though.
We’re quite amicable - the divorce came through earlier this year, but we’re still living in the same house until the children have gone to university.

@NurseRunner. Excuse my naivety in all of this but once divorced are you not 'forced' into a position legally to have to split the assets, i.e the house and have a clean break? Can you defer legally until the kids go off to uni? Obviously you can as you are doing so. Just exploring options here as we're reasonably amicable and my dd is only 15 so want to do the best all round really (if possible!).

Plenty of people legally divorce and never do a financial clean break order. It’s not recommended as either party can come back at a later date and make a claim (unless they remarry) My parents never had a financial order, they made their own agreement between each other.
I think a lot is dependent on how/ why your marriage ended. If there is no trust there, then I can see why people wouldn’t leave it to chance.