Child maintenance during the holidays?

[Jeany1967]

Hi all,

Quick question. Me and my ex husband have an amicable arrangement for our child maintenance where he pays the same amount each month for the children's expenses. The children usually live with me and spend every other weekend with their Dad.

The children are with their Dad for two weeks during the summer holidays and he's reduced the child maintenance by half this month because he has more child expenses to pay - to feed them and is paying out hundreds on their activities apparently.

I'm not thrilled about this to be honest and don't really think it's fair. I understand that he will pay more for their food but activities he does with them has nothing to do with me. Not sure if he expects my landlord to only take half from me for my rent this month but the expenses don't just cover their food. I will cover next years uniform, teacher's thank you gifts, all their clothes, ear piercings, lots of general expenses that I cover that he doesn't even have to worry about.

I don't think there's much I can do as we have a mutual agreement but I just wanted to see whether I'm being unreasonable here?

Any advice please?
Thank you

You're not being unreasonable at all.

While he has them over the holidays ask him to go out and get their uniforms / footwear for the new term.

. I will cover next years uniform, teacher's thank you gifts, all their clothes, ear piercings, lots of general expenses that I cover that he doesn't even have to worry about.

So tell him - "great, don't forget to budget for the uniform etc" (ear piercing? not an essential though, nor a teacher gifts)

Typically look at number of nights he has them over the course of a year which includes holidays and then divide by 12. That factors in the time with him and shouldn’t be any deductions while he has them

Ridiculous from him, your costs of having them will also go up while they're off school!

I think this is going to depend on the amounts, since your only recourse will be to CMS

So, if he's paying way over CMS levels, it would be risky to try to change things over this. But if he's not at that level, then it would be easier to use CMS !!

Maintenance is calculated based on overnights so if he is having the children for more overnights then it may push him into a lower maintenance boundary as calculated by the CMS. In which case he’d be within his rights to lower payment. If it doesn’t affect the payment boundary he’d be in then no, he shouldn’t do this but unless you went via CMS I’m not sure there’s much you can do. He sounds awful.

Agree depends if paying CMS level or extra already.

I disputed exH claim of overnights (he wanted move into lower CMS band) and he said he was doing more nights - I provided evidence of number he had done in previous 12 months which meant 1/7 not 2/7 reduction of CMS and this was accepted. If you went through CMS they would do an annual review and count overnights over 12 months eg <104 is 1/7 reduction and 104-155 is 2/7 reduction.

So he is right that by having them in holidays he may have moved into a lower rate (as has them more 104 nights a year) but with CMS that be averaged over the year so the same monthly payment. It maybe he’s cancelled weekends so still in same band.

If he’s paying more than CMS would ask him to then it’s not worth challenging.

It depends on how you worked out the amount he regularly pays. If it is abated for x days per week when they stay with him then he is right if that has increased. If it is abated for x days per year when they stay with him then he is wrong because it is already factored in.

If this isn’t clear and if it isn’t clear what essentials are covered then you both need to revisit the agreement and be clear about it. Then you can decide if you need to use a formal CMS calculation. This will be based on his salary not the cost to you and the days per year he has them. It is paid in regular amounts even if the days change during the year as you describe.

No, that's not how child maintenance works.

It's supposed to be calculated over the whole year, so unless the extra 14 days pushes him into the next bracket, it makes no difference. He needs to pay or you need to report to CMS for non-compliance.

If he's really struggling, I'd consider letting him pay you back over the next few months.

Thanks everyone for your comments.

He pays around £120 more each month than what he would under the CMS but he has no outlays - no rent, no bills (has accommodation through his employment) and is on a very generous wage.

I've no intention of challenging anything, I just don't get his logic. Yes he has to feed the children for two weeks (and paying hundreds on activities he claims) but my overheads don't stop because I don't have the children. I guess I'm just looking for advice because I obviously think I'm right and he thinks he is.

He's a really good Dad otherwise. He pays me a good amount each month but I'm just not sure how he can justify halving the amount this month when I have September's childcare costs to pay as well as all their uniform for the new year.

As people have stated the CMS would look at overall days per year to calculate his abatement. But up would get paid it in equal 12th.

It seems unlikely he will pay more than he already is which is above a CMS calculation. Your options don’t exclude asking for more but he can say no. Then you can either put aside money throughout the year or ask him to adjust the overall amount to be equal 12ths. Either you budget or he budgets. But he is unlikely to be the one who volunteers.

It is not about logic being right or wrong. Because you have reached your own agreement. No rules apply except the ones you agreed. Which gives you extra money and him the autonomy to reduce in August.

If he has them for half of the month then I agree with him. It’s 50/50 and therefore he doesn’t owe you any maintenance. CM isn’t there to help you pay the rent.

Actually it is - a parent with a boy and a girl aged over 8 or ao needs three bedrooms as opposed to the one bedroom they'd be paying for if they didn't house the children the majority of the time. Of course it's partly to pay for the roof over the children's heads.

That's not how CMS is calculated. Imagine if it was done on a weekly basis and had to be recalculated that often! The CMS is worked out over the year. For example, if the NRP didn't see them at all except for the whole 6 week summer holiday and 2 weeks at Easter, that would be more than 52 days so there would be a 1/7 reduction for the whole year, but it would be paid the same every month. Not full rate for 9 months, half in April, 3/4 in July and none in August.

If he’s overpaying £120 a month than what the calculator says then yes YABU. He’s over paying every month so he’s in his rights to hold some back for when he has the children. If you are not happy with that then the alternative is to go to cms, tell them how many nights the kids stay with their dad, receive less maintenance each month but it will be the same each month and not reduce during holidays. I think you’d be silly to do the latter.

also to even mention teacher thank you gifts and ear piercings make you unreasonable. They are not necessities, they’re optional extras

I would write and email and send links of school uniform including shoes and coats total cost.

So out of 6/7 school hols weeks he's only doing 2 weeks? Do you know his salary OP because rhe risk of a private arrangement is you won't actually know if his salary increases or even if he's been honest about his wages.

Depends what he pays you though as well?

Tell us you don’t understand cms without telling us you don’t understand cms 🤦‍♀️

Cms is there to help pay towards a roof over a child’s head.

Actually OP would get an annual review each year. While his earnings may go down they also may go up. Not only that OP will know in black and white what her exs salary is. No faffing around.

Yes I know they do an annual review but he would have to earn a hell of a lot more to make the new payment anywhere near £120.

This. Just say you will reimburse him 50% once he's bought it.

@Coconutter24 OP doesn't really know for a fact what her ex earns. Based on EOW and 2 weeks in the summer hols isn't exactly father of the year tbh. We also don't know what her ex pays per month...

What about the school uniform costs? Sorry but I would be asking about this politely.

So he pays full main and an extra £120 every month

wow some are so lucky.

I know it’s not a race against but I get £28 a month as he’s on benifits and won’t work

he sounds very fair tbh

so the fact he pays you nearly £1500 more a year then he is meant to - I wouldn’t quibble over half payment for one month as having them 2w

@Blondeshavemorefun I'm not been funny but this is the issue across the board. 2 overnight per month is 24 nights per year. Plus 14 nights on top of that. Come on ladies!!

The bar is low indeed. It's like the mothers are expected to be grateful. Earnings play a big part its all relative if you don't earn well that's just what it is. However if someone earns a decent wage you should naturally want to pay for your own child!

I'm not sure OP is getting such a good deal like her ex is spinning!

Yes and sounds like op ex does. He pays and well above

as much as mine doesn’t pay much

I have a male friend who pays £400 a month for 3 kids. He literally pays his rent. Full council tax minus the single discount. The bills like G&R - phone - WiFi - water and has maybe £40 a week which he has to buy food from

not all men are shits - my friend struggles every month. Has taken on a second evening job to earn a little extra and loses a chunk of that to his ex

she gets their rent paid by uc. Obv gets uc and her wages plus the cm

It’s not always black and white

I think it's irrelevant that he's paying over the CMS level - and in any case that level is pretty meagre and in no way reflects the true cost of bringing up children. And I agree with you OP that he shouldn't reduce the payments - you still have to pay the same overheads year round.

That said, there's little you can do about it I'm afraid. My H used to do this, and we had a court ordered financial settlement - he knew I wouldn't go back to Court.