Abusive ex and holiday information

[ReasonablyFair]

Lengthy and expensive court batter lasting years, with social services and police involved along the way, resulting in lived with order where dc live with me and can visits their Dad at set times (alternate weekends) if they choose.

At best they go for a few hours at a time but not always. DC1 told me this week: “if he were not my Dad, then I wouldn’t want anything to do with him and I can’t handle spending much time with him.”

DC don’t stay overnight or go away on holiday but they do with me, for one week, once a summer. Last year ex kept insisting they call each step of the way… when you get to the airport, when your flight lands, when you reach the hotel, show me the bedroom and pool, FaceTime with me… etc. it is always intrusive (at meal times or when we are in bed - I don’t really want my ex to see me on a video on my holiday - and last year DC2 was fine until the phone calls started and then became tearful and stopped enjoying the holiday for a while.

So I’ve decided to say to ex that they will be gone for just one week, I will tel him the dates and the airport, hotel name and country, and we can let ex know they’ve landed safely because he says he worries about their safety, and then unless DC want to call him, he needs to let us have our quiet enjoyment undisturbed.

I guess part of me is not used to making boundaries and I feel stuck in the drama triangle as ‘persecutor’ of the poor ex ‘victim’ who thinks he should be able to call his DC 24/7. On my one week’s holiday per year. It can honestly feel that he’s on holiday with us, which, considering some of his abuse involved coercive control, is very uncomfortable.

An old part of me is seeking validation for my choice, but I also am desperate to know that I am being reasonable. I can’t compare this to amicable separations with 50-50 K because that’s not what we’ve got here, But I wonder if anybody who has either had criminal/court battles while trying to somewhat co-parent or even parallel- parent, Has been an ass similar position and I wonder how you managed it

YANBU

Last year ex kept insisting they call each step of the way… when you get to the airport, when your flight lands, when you reach the hotel, show me the bedroom and pool, FaceTime with me… etc. it is always intrusive (at meal times or when we are in bed

you can see this for what it is; control.

he’s constantly occupying all of your holiday time.

text him when you’re landed, they can send photos of the room IF THEY WANT TO, but otherwise NO FACETIME unless they want to speak to him, and even then, not in bedrooms or at times when it’s interfering with bed/meals/family time.

is he going to kick off about it? Of course. What’s he gonna do about it? Nothing.

teach your kids they have choices and options, that they don’t have to do what people tell them to do if they’re not willing to do it.

or give him a window in the day where he can call, and phone OFF otherwise.

take back control. You need to learn to do this too, it’s part of your recovery process

Thank you for detailed response. You are right I do need to learn it but so do the children, Which is even more of an incentive for me to learn it quickly! To some degree we are all dancing to the beat of his drum – to the point that, if I were to say to them they can contact as often as they like, their first thought would be how much would HE want it and they would do what is his bidding of them, rather than their preference.

Your plan sounds good, if the kids want to they can do more. But he is doing it for control, no other reason. You're nicer than me with providing the information you are, I only told him thr county in England m this year.

How much phone contact does he have with the DCs in a normal week?

How old are they?

to be fair when my kids go away I always say to them, ooh message you’ve landed, oh send me pic of hotel etc,, they’re late teens now and I still do it - im
not doing it for control / and my kids end up giving me running commentary if their journey !

I appreciate this is a different situation as there’s no abuse but it can also be quite normal

I think it’s fair to message to say you’ve landed safely and are at the hotel, and then a call or message mid week.

how old are they ?

How much does he message / expect them to message in a normal week (I think I know the answer to this - hardly ever?) Then that’s how much on holiday is reasonable.

It’s hard I know but it sounds like you are doing great op. Enjoy your holiday.

I would tell him the dates, country and general location, but I probably wouldn't tell him the hotel you're staying in.

I would also let him know you've landed/arrived at the hotel and say the kids will face time in the middle of the week, as that seems reasonable (I guess if they were at home they'd speak to him at least once in the week)?

How old are the kids?

I think the dates and country is enough. Message when landed if you want or share the flight details and he can check online himself.
Back in the days before mobile phones / internet the most contact would have been a postcard that probably arrived as you were coming home. The kids passports presumably have his details as emergency contacts.
What advice would you give to your child if their bf/gf wanted this level of contact or to track them when on a family holiday.

I don't see why your ex needs to know all the details of your holiday. Tell him 'We are flying to Turkey and staying in the Marmaris area between 11-18 August'. He doesn't need to know anything further, and personally I think that information is generous!! Your children should be given the choice to call him or not or answer calls/messages from him. He's not particularly interested in talking to the children, he just wants to control you and his children. Using the children to do this is easy, for him. You need to put boundaries in place and no of course he won't like it! You have to stand firm for your children's sake. Does he have mandated calls during the week normally? Or are calls just when he wants them?

After a long legal process in the split (although no police etc. acrimonious, but not threatening), I am required to give notice of when we're travelling, the country and transport details (eg. flight number) - but I am not required to share my exact location (ie I wouldn't tell him the hotel we're staying at). TBH, I'd prefer not to have to give the flight details, but it is what it is. This is enough, you don't need to share the hotel if you don't want to.

Like yours mine sees their dad for a few hours once or twice a month. There is rarely any contact in between, but the kids do sometimes message me when they're with him if they need to tell him something, so frequent messaging when away would be extremely odd to them.

As long as op would be ok with the sane information in return if ex too her kids on holiday

If the kids have phones they can contact him, you don't need to be involved at all - unless of course they ask you to because its all a bit much.
Telling him that you will be in x country between these dates is sufficient and anything else he asks for is him trying to control you.

I’d be tempted to tell him you’re all having a digital detox and won’t be taking smartphones. Both kids are addicted etc etc etc. either that or turn the phones off completely and give anyone else who might need you the number of thr hotel/campsite whatever. He can get one call to say you’ve arrived and that’s it. Never mind what OP would be comfortable with - you don’t get to do tit for tat if you’ve been an abuser.

Unless court ordered just block him for the entire holiday...
I mean why wouldn't you??

Thanks everyone for all of your contributions.

DC are secondary school age (range from 11-16) And have their own phones, but never call their dad, he always calls them. Usually it is the night before he’s going to request they visit him the next day.

Sometimes they are quite adept at ignoring the calls and keeping the phone on silent so I would imagine they would do the same when we are on holiday.

Youngest DC gets quite homesick and especially when hearing a familiar voice from ‘back home’, even though we don’t all live in the same home anymore. There is still a lingering wish for us to be one big happy family, despite knowing that it can never happen. It’s amazing how emotions don’t always catch up with facts - even for adults but especially for children. I think that’s what made one of the DC so upset after the first phone call last holiday.
The truth of it is, it’s very disruptive. I was walking down the street with one of the children yesterday when he called - ironically, it was okay for him to call because we are not on holiday right now andtoday was a potential visit day Which he would normally call about the day before, but I only mentioned it because it demonstrates how it entirely interrupted our flow of discussion, which we never fully got back into, and I know this happens on holidays as well. It’s not so bad happening in normal everyday life, but I don’t want it to happen on the holiday just for one week in a year. That’s all I ask.Selfishly though, I am trying to consider my own needs as well as the children’s. I need NEVER to hear from him and they need to sometimes be able to hear from. him, but on their term and not his. I always facilitate contact because I do want them to have as much good access as they possibly can. Even though he was an abuser, he did have some nice sides - as I have learned is very typical in these situations - so if the children can gain from that part of him then of course I don’t want to deny them.

We probably won’t be detoxing because they’ll want to keep in contact with their friends, and although I can block my ex as much as I like, he doesn’t ring me anyway, it’s always directly to the children’s phones.

Everybody in my body wants to do this, but I did Google this morning about what the right thing to do is and law firm after law firm all said that a judge would expect you to give the address when it is abroad.

You make the same point that I asked myself, which is very typical of me and always has been, which I think is partly why I was such a good father for somebody abusive. I give too much consideration for the other person.

The truth is I would want to hear about every little detail. Not to control them but to know they are Not just safe but having the time of their life, because I am the only adult they feel safe with (having been abused by the other parent) and I think as a previous poster pointed out, it’s quite different expectation for the other parent when is an abuser and one is not. It doesn’t feel like a fair question to ask of myself, given the circumstances. I do really struggle with that side of it though, and I think that’s partly what makes me so vulnerable to his continued abuse if I am not careful.

I was listening to a post-abuse relationship podcast and they were saying that you can’t give them the same level of sacrifice and respect as you would to a normal person, because they never respond and always will use it against you. So it’s actually not a safe thing to do. I would like nothing more than for us to be friends as exes and to be able to share holiday memories with each other for the sake of the children, and even because it’s a pleasant thing to do. But we will never be in that situation which grieves me but it’s reality of the situation.So yes I would be that parent that would take great interest but his interests concern me because it is often twisted and used against the children and against me.
So yes I would be that parent that would take great interest but his interests concern me because he is often twisted and used against the children against me.

That reminds me of something I read years ago called The Privilege of Normalcy. When you're dealing with someone who acts like a normal person and not a vindictive/chaotic/disruptive/etc asshole then they should be afforded the privilege of being treated with respect and consideration. But if they've shown themselves to act like an asshole then those privileges can be withdrawn and instead they get the bare minimum. If they want to be treated like a normal person then they need to consistently behave like one.

Here's a thought - would it be worth saying to the DCs that they should take some photos of the holiday to show to their dad on their return? That might take the pressure off them to respond to him while away.

I wouldn't tell him the name or address of the hotel. He has no right to know.

I'd text him once to say you have arrived safely, and then turn all devices off. Allow your poor children to relax.