wife, breadwinner and homegiver

[CasperRose]

Hi. New to writing on this as I keep googling my circumstances and cannot find any likeness. Im wandering if anyone has been in a similar position and how did it play out for you?
I am 44, husband is 51 we have a 12 year old daughter. I am going to ask for divorce. It may come as a shock to him.. but secretly deep down I think he knows things are not right. I just cant bare to be with him anymore, I clocked out a long time ago.
I earn a lot more money than DH, and so I have invested an awful lot of money into the house. I paid the deposit when we bought it (1/3rd) he paid nothing. I have furnished and decorated every room, made the house a home. Paid for a full kitchen and patio extension, I pay the gas electric, water, everything my DD ever needs school meals, food, clothes, clubs.. its endless. Ive paid for every holiday we’ve ever had. He never offered to contribute and always just said I cant afford it and thanks for paying etc. Ive never asked.. its just always been a given that mum picks up the tab.

I do work full time but I am also there for my DD, I never miss a thing and would say I am the main caregiver and provider for her we are very close. My DH also works full time, shifts so different hours but not as much money as me, we go halves on the mortgage. That’s about his contribution for the last 13 years. He also receives an early police pension that tops him up monthly.
As well as earning more I also have 2 private pensions, some savings and money in an ISA. Also shares in my family business. These are things I have saved and built over the years for my future, I started before we even met but they have continued to grow. I have never disclosed how much I earn, any bonuses dividends etc. Its always been my business and I have never asked how much he earns or has in his pension etc.
The general assumption on line is that if one is a “breadwinner” then the other is a “caregiver”. So just because I work full time does not mean my DH runs the house, cooks, cleans and provides full time childcare. Or vice versa. Far from it. He helps out but I generally run the house and do all the cooking and cleaning and childcare. Hes a great dad and does what he needs to and adores our DD but he is not a stay at home. So every divorce seems to assume if one is earning more the other must have given up something to stay at home.
If he is still earning a fairly ok salary plus the addition of his police pension are we still equal in this divorce? 50/50? I know that’s just a starting point.
Has anyone any experience of this divide and how it has worked out?
I would like to keep the house, more than anything for stability of DD and keeping her home life safe and stable. I understand DH would need cash to buy another house so he has a safe home for DD to be in and stay whenever she wants. So, if he took a big chunk of my pension (preferable) he wouldn’t have cash to do this. I don’t want to sell the house and split the equity. I could maybe buy him out and remortgage. So he would have cash and I would be in the house. Would the equity likely be in my favour due to the amount I have invested? He would still need enough for a house deposit though.
So long as he has enough to pay a deposit and he should be able to afford mortgage payments am I likely to be able to walk away with more than 50% because of how much I have invested over the years in financial and running the home? Lots of things going on here…

My advice is to get legal advice asap. I’m the main earner, 3x my husband’s salary, we separated last year and currently going through divorce proceedings. Married for 15 years, 2 sons 17&15. He was in the military so has a substantial pension, whereas my career had to wait till kids were older and I’ve done alright. He now has an ok job, has housing provided through his work and is claiming poverty. I have continued to pay the joint mortgage, the kids school fees, all clubs etc and anything the kids need. They spend more time at his house as it’s closer to their school/college during term time but we split holidays. We don’t have a huge amount of equity in the home so I’ve asked for transfer of equity and I’ll leave his pension alone. But he wants everything. His pension and cash. We’ve gone for full financial disclosure and it’s been a slog and all is with solicitors so have no idea what the outcome will be but I would say get legal advice first and foremost!!!

You need to see a lawyer because it’s possible in the circumstances you describe you’ll come away with less than 50% certainly not more

And the fact you paid for it doesn’t mean anything. In the eyes of law. You’ll need to disclose all assets held in joint or single names, and it will be shared based on needs and principles of sharing. Ie needs first then of surplus this will be shared.

Both yours and his pensions will need proper valuation along with equity and ISAs ( his police one may be valuable)

only once you know these can you start to understand equity splits

Thankyou for your replies. I have had an initial consultation with a family law solicitor already as I wanted to get a feel for what a likely outcome would be in these circumstances. Though appreciate every case is different.
Can I ask why you think I may come away with less than 50%?

You both have a need for 2 bed home to house your child. You need to work out what that would cost him.

You both need retirement income and if it’s a long marriage court will look to provide similar standard of living. He is older and earns less so less time to rebuild.

Money put into family home unless very recent is matrimonial and presumption is 50:50 split matrimonial assets - ie those built up during marriage and not via an inheritance or gift. That would include your savings during marriage. He may need more than 50% to house himself and child

Your contributions to marriage will be treated as equal - even if they weren’t the courts is not going to dissect who did what and will consider you both accepted any unequal situation by staying together. Don’t waste time litigating the marriage the court is not interested unless there was extreme criminal behaviour.

Money in pension / assets before / after separation or family business, gifts, inheritance is not matrimonial. The presumption is you keep this unless it is required to meet his need for a 2 bed house (I am assuming here his income is sufficient to meet his needs). If you want to ringfence assets then you need to show they were yours before marriage, he can meet needs without them or the family business was a gift not intended to be shared etc

His earnings and mortgage capacity are relevant but not to the extent the court would expect him to leave with just a deposit and a large mortgage while you keep the house - given you are the stronger party it’s more likely he will get a bigger share as your mortgage capacity is higher.

Obviously get detailed legal advice but your best bet is probably to make him a generous offer early on based on 50% of what has been accumulated during the time you have lived together (courts count this not just from wedding date) less any debts, sale costs etc

There are some people that know they have not made the same contribution and don’t want 50:50 of everything but my exH was not one of them. He started this way when we first separated but we delayed financial proceedings so dc could stay in house longer - this was a mistake as by the time we did the settlement I had continued to earn more and he had continued being lazy and got very greedy. So my advice would be make a fair offer early. Remember you can earn more and rebuild over next 20 years.

It’s also important to children there is not a huge disparity between their parents.

If you have all the financial info eg what each of you would put in a form E and pension values then you could get advice from a direct access barrister as to the likely outcome and what offer to make.

Thankyou for your detailed reply! I had looked at 2-3 bedroom homes close to wear we are now so not far from daughter. If I bought him out of the house based on a rough calculation of equity in it he will have more than enough cash to put a deposit down. To buy him out I would need to remortgage in order to access more cash for him. I can afford a new re mortgage on my own. So he would walk away with cash for a new home. On his wage Im sure he can afford a mortgage as he is also topped up by his police pension. And also no doubt he will have half of my pension. He will know full well he does not match any contributions. He will see money signs and I think go for everything he can get as he has a "life owes me" attitude. I have had a meeting with a solicitor but I still want to know so much before proceeding. Not that money would be the deciding factor.. but I like to know what Im in for. I guess when I have spoken to him about divorce I will then have further legal meetings where we can dig into all this. I just really hope to keep the house and worried. Not through sentimental reasons.. and the fact I have invested so much into it over the years making it a home.. but more for my daughter so she has her safe place and home she grew up in. I hope he will understand that and not try and take it all away.

Similar situation here. Ex also police pension, but has a total net worth of 50K ( all pension) and did not contribute to the matrimonial home or mortgage at all. I pay for all repairs to the home etc. He is also greedy and wants more than half of my assets despite having spent all his own money and was in debt before his parents paid his debts for him. He is also going for half my pension.
This is a man whose parents have moved from 1 hour away, downsized from a 1 million pound property and bought a 4 bedroom house near the kids school, to house him and the children. I don’t see why he needs me to give him half my money to purchase another home since where he will be staying with the kids is super convenient (near playground, school, train links), vastly more luxurious than anything he can buy on his own, will have free childcare and help with chores, and he doesn’t even have to pay rent. His brother pays for his legal fees.
What pisses me off is that he didn’t even want to mediate and is going all the way to court ( and eventually spending more of my assets). He profits no matter what, it’s just a matter of how much. I wouldn’t count on these type of man thinking about the security for their kids- You’ve done it all their lives, why do they need to start now? Even if they rinse you, they know that you will still be doing all you can for your kids and they don’t have to contribute.

I agree 50:50 can be a hard pill to swallow when one party has carried the other but the court won’t see it any differently than a sahp v a earner who they treat as equal contributors.
It’s not just about the deposit it’s what is 50% of net matrimonial assets and is that enough for him to house himself. If not then for the remainder he needs it will be an argument about claiming on non mat assets v him getting a mortgage.
And some people will claim sickness / disability and leave work so they can claim zero mortgage capacity.
My ex also dragged it all way and refused negotiate as family were paying his legal fees.

he’s tried all the tricks. Trying to inflate the house valuation by talking to the estate agents against the instructions from the solicitors, asking for capital expenses of a car (he can’t drive and doesn’t even have a driving licence), has been off on 6 month full pay sick leave for “mental health” issues. I saw him with a whole new wardrobe recently as well. I’m sure once he gets the payout, he’ll be getting himself a 4K TV and a PS5.

And what I’m really pissed off here- is that for gambling sites, financial investments and such things with financial risk, there is ample warning and signposting about potential financial loss. In our cases, rather than marriage being an investment, it has been the complete opposite, and will put some of us into debt, debt not of our own making. Why should I have to pay for a mortgage twice? I am highly motivated to bring this issue to the fore, so future career women like us, do not fall into this trap without ample financial advice/ protection. The 50%50% split is archaic and stems from when a spouse had to be a SAHP to look after the kids. In the modern day marriage, this is no longer relevant, and allows for parasitic spouses ( and I speak also for men with parasitic spouses), to lay claim to what they have not fairly contributed to.

Well he will prophet from this no matter what. Entered the marriage with nothing, was paying an interest only mortgage, he sold the house and didnt make a penny. The house has gone up a lot in value since we purchased. Some down to inflation but a huge chunk will be down to me paying for decorating every room and furnishing, kitchen extension, new kitchen, carpets, every item in every room down to the door knobs has been bought by me. Appreciate that is all tit for tat though in these circumstances. But I would say I considerably am personally responsible for the high value of the home now. As I said I dont want to sell the house, not for sentimental reasons but I want the stability for my daughter to stay where she is living and have things as normal as they can be, its near her school, her friends etc. So selling and splitting isnt something I would like to do even though it would provide him with a chunk of cash. I can however I think afford to buy him out if he decides to be reasonable. I will have to re mortgage the house but assuming he dosnt take everything else from me I can manage and afford this. What he would get from me paying him half the equity value of the house would be plenty for him to buy a new house so he shouldnt need more but I know thats not realistic.
He took early retirement from police due to an injury and gets paid this pension monthly which tops him up, I dont know the value of this. Or know what if anything is left in his pot. I don't know how that works. But I do know I have 2 substantial pensions. Should these be split 50/50 he cant claim it for a while, but he will have more of a retirement fund than he could ever have dreamed of. Also with his age I think he can claim a 25% lump sum from his pension at age 55 which is only 2-3 years away. He will be better off than me paying a double mortgage with cash left. But I will eventually make money back I know. He does still work and always has so he has his own income. He has made a statement in the past on a few occasions whilst drunk - to my friends who have told me " I would never dare leave him as he'd take half of everything Ive got" So hes thought about it and is a greedy person by nature. He would be driving round in my Range rover sport and curse bitterly at someone driving past in a nice car saying look at them, imagine having a car like that the bastard.. etc... so hes always hard done by.
He is a great dad though, and a nice man. I just dont want to be with him anymore. Its not really his fault I just want out and Im done with being married. There is no one else, Im a bit done with men and just want to be on my own and free and happy. And I wish him happiness and hope he meets someone who can give him what I cant in terms of love and affection. Hes a very needy man. He knows nothing of this yet. I am just looking at the possible outcomes and i have spoken to a solicitor.

He is the ‘weaker party’ ie earns less, is older, smaller mortgage capacity based on lower earnings and age vs tiu etc puts him in a strong position to go for more than half as you’ll be deemed able to recover quicker .

however, this needs proper pension valuations which might allow for some trade off, I expect he’ll argue that a deposit is not good enough and he wants more equity because of the above - and if there are assets available to do so this might be the case.

understanding both your pensions vs other assets will be key but I’d say you’d be doing well if you come away 50:50 of assets overall

Maybe not uppermost, but if you look after the child then child maintenance will be payable from him based on taxable income.

Most pensions are payable from 55 right now, but it's rising to 57 soon. His police pension will be a salary-related scheme, which is not a 'pot of money', but yes its value should be factored in to the split.

Some men are phobic about maintenance and losing 'their' pensions, so that might give you a bit of leverage, in working towards an overall 50/50 or thereabouts.