Custody

[Bayou2000]

I have separated from my 3 daughters father. We are not married (he actually never got divorced from his wife 25 yrs ago.)
He is refusing to enter into a custody arrangement and just arranges to see them through the oldest child (14) whenever he fancies and often at short notice.
He tends to meet them at dinner time but refuses buy them dinner as he claims to have no money. He takes home more than £3k a month.
Would it be unreasonable to stop him seeing the younger daughters (twins age 12) until he gets round the table to formulate a custody arrangement? I am aware the 14 yr old can choose if she sees him.

How old are the other children? That sounds hard and not appropriate to bring the eldest into the middle of it so sorry you are going through it. Are you in the uk? Claiming cms? Will you have to sort anything else financial like house etc?

No that’s not reasonable because dc need to be protected and see both parents. What you can do is set clear boundaries for your dc - calendar with clear evenings and weekends when they’re free and can see dad. That way 14yo can look and say “oh we can’t do Tuesday but how about Wednesday?” And avoid inappropriate times. I’d also say 48 hours notice minimum.

in terms of food, most meals can be microwaved so try to be flexible and don’t make a thing. Dc don’t need to know dad’s a loser who can’t be bothered to feed them.

Good luck!

You should t need a ‘ custody arrangement’

you should be able to agree a lose schedule to have the children but mostly at their ages they should be able to agree themselves, and have a large degree of flexibility

but yes it would be totally unreasonable to stop him seeing them until he agrees to a ‘custody arrangement’

I suppose my worry is what if he never agrees to anything?
I work FT, sometimes away. 48 hrs notice is no use when it comes to planning childcare.
I agree that we should be able to negotiate a loose schedule but he won’t engage with me, and is ignoring my lawyer.
Do I just allow this random contact situation to continue indefinitely?
He won’t engage re finances either- I am submitting a cMA claim tomorrow. Not sure how easy to do that without his address will be.

Twins are age 12.
House is mine, I pay the mortgage and it’s in my name. As we weren’t married there isn’t anything else in the way of assets to split.

Legally a judge would allow the 12 year olds to pick custody too. Do the kids mind the ad hoc meetings ? Mine wouldn’t have liked it because they’d want the option to make plans with friends without feeling torn when dad later contacts them to say that he wants to see them too.

How short notice is short notice ? I would tell the kids that if I’m already cooking then they can’t go out until after they’ve eaten (are dinners going cold/having to be reheated?) If they are cancelling stuff to prioritise seeing dad then I’d tell them that they need to explain to the person that they are letting down.

I disagree with PP that you should only have a loose schedule and should have to be totally flexible with him. Yes maybe when they are 16/17 and can be left, have their own keys etc but 12 is certainly much too young. Kids need routines and so does the parent. OP is entitled to a life and to make plans just as much as he is. Would he take kindly to them all being dropped round with little notice because she's got stuff to? Unless the answer is a resounding yes, she shouldn't have to give him flexibility that she doesn't get.

You can submit a cms claim without an address though it may be more difficult.

I would sent an email, so you've got a record saying its not appropriate for the kids to be making arrangements at this stage and at this age. You are absolutely happy to sit down and agree a contact schedule and will allow flexibility but there needs to be some degree of communication that doesn't involve the children and if they are out over meal times they must be fed. Then suggest what you think is reasonable.

Talk to the 14 year old explain you love that they get on with their dad and want to see him and you're not going to stop that but contact arrangements are complicated so if he asks you just need to respond. Contact mum. That way we can make sure you get a schedule where you know when youre seeing your dad.

The children and I need a regular arrangement - they have a number of sporting commitments, and I need to be able to plan how I get them to these events alongside my work commitments.
Realistically I will require a mothers help/nanny and I can’t expect them to fall in line with ad hoc arrangements.

I didn’t say total flexibility . But there should not be a strict immovable schedule imo

at 12 the kids can have a key, be left for periods of time ( eg home after school for few hours )

I do agree logistics re sports etc needs agreeing.

think you’d be unreasonable to try to stop contact completely but it is reasonable to say he can’t just come and go without warning or notice

Given that he is not engaging with me or my lawyer I actually don’t know what levers I have to bring him to the table to negotiate.

In reality even if you had a contact arranged by way of child arrangements order it doesn’t sound like he’ll be reliable and stick to it.

based on updates I think I’ve change my mind. I do t mean refuse contact completely but just tell him what works for you and if he doesn’t want them then to let you know but as he won’t communicate there’s no alternative. Then you can make all the arrangements re logistics etc

and just tell your 14yo that if he asks her to arrange visits with twins that he needs to speak to you

You can't change him, but you can make the rules in your home. Part of that is explaining to your 14 year old to tell dad to talk to mum as she shouldn't be the go between, and agree with the kids what nights are suitable working around yours and the kid's schedules.
Don't get annoyed with the kids, they are stuck in the middle. I'd also be discussing with your 14 year old how they feel about being the messenger, and talk to all three kids bout what they would like. Do they want it flexible or the same night every week?
If it is the same night every week that they want, I would then just message him saying despite you trying to get him to discuss you've spoken to the kids and have agreed they are avaliable on x and y. They would like x amount of notice, or contact won't go ahead that week.

Reassure the kids that they haven't done anything wrong.

Look into the grey rock method for communication. Document everything just in case he does take you to court.

It is tricky!