Is 50:50 even workable/sensible?

[Emmzo]

Sadly a first post in this topic for me, but we separated around 5 months ago. 2 DC, DD is 2.5 and DS 4.5.

Ex has been staying with his parents since. The children stay with me, he sees them regularly but only has DS overnight, once a week for now. Ex has never once put DD to bed, never settled her in the night because she would scream for mummy so he left it all to me, and she is too young to ‘get’ being told that Mummy’s not there just now. I strongly feel that she’d not cope overnight at the moment, so I’ve said no until she’s a bit older - I fully support working towards this tho, and working on trying to get her to settle independently. I don’t restrict him spending the daytimes with her, I just collect her to bring her home to sleep.

Ex DP wants 50:50. But he works a rolling shift pattern that follows an 8 week cycle. During this he has a mixture of 9-5 days and also periods of 24hr on-call standby, lasting 2-3 days, The standby days change week to week, sometimes weekends too. I work full time, 9-5 but flexible/agile working mostly from home and I’m currently doing all the childcare commutes.

It’s not practical for ex to have the kids while he’s on standby. The area he will probably stay permanently is around 30 minutes drive.

DS starts school this year, and DD does a combination of nursery and family childcare. Ex says that I have to come up with the 8-week rolling plan for him to have 50:50. But the only way this is remotely possible is with the children swapping homes every couple of days, and him doing an hour round trip twice a day during the week when he has them.

I feel like this is really unfair on the kids, lots of their time when they’re not in school/nursery/wraparound will be spent in the car. They won’t have a regular schedule or know where they going to be when. A day or two here and there, changing every week. But I’ve got no idea what’s reasonable. And ex is being particularly nasty at the moment. There’s no way we can work together on this 😔

I don’t really know what I’m asking for. I guess advice, a handhold, being told I’m being totally unreasonable and it’s fine for the kids to move around all the time… I really want to avoid court. He’ll do it if what I come up with doesn’t suit him tho. And he won’t listen to me saying it’s unfair on the kids. I just don’t really know what to do 😕

It’s not up to you to come up with a plan

he needs to demonstrate how it’s workable, what it looks like, how it is in this best interests of the children to do whatever arrangement he comes up with and lastly what will happen if he gets called out

until then just say no

im a big proponent of 50:50 and there are some things in your post I’d say are not marries ( eg dd not settling etc because she would ) but it relies upon good co parenting, pretty stable work patterns, and ability to compute/support logistics of school and home etc. if that’s not in place it likely won’t be good for anyone

Oh and if it goes to court he’ll have you prove how it would work and why it’s in the childrens best interests

Unless he comes up with a regular workable schedule that works for the children I’d just keep saying no. He can take you to court. I very much doubt a judge would agree that the kids swapping homes every 2 days and spending hours in the car is fair on them

It’s his job to come up with a workable plan.
It'll probably be best getting to court and getting a Child Arrangements Order so the pattern is fixed. Otherwise you’ll have him constantly asking you to change your plans at zero notice, you won’t be able to plan anything.

It's not your problem to work out, but I'd be concerned he'll palm the kids off on his parents around his shifts and us doing this to avoid maintenance.

I works shifts and on call standbys, exH and I are trying for 50/50 and I accept that I'll have to swap all the shifts that fall outside of the normal 9-5 on the days I have the kids. It's very possible for me to do that, but it will be awkward. We're not all sorted with things yet

As a general rule I don't think 50/50 is in the best interest if children. I think that's a very adult-focussed approach.

This certainly seems to be true in your circumstances. It doesn't seem like your ex is prioritising the children's needs. It's not your job to come up with something that works to accommodate his schedule. He needs to find a way to make it work and then justify why this is in the children's best interests.

Stand firm and as much as possible don't let him see that it's getting to you/stressing you out. I think often men launch into this "I must have 50/50" (having never done 50/50 when you were together) to get at their ex partner. Don't rise to it and hopefully he'll get bored with it and accept what is practical.

Also a fan of 50/50, and did it myself for 10+ years. But it isn't right for everyone and needs to be properly 50/50 -- e.g. with holidays, half-terms, when kids are sick, etc.

Why not sent back the following idea:
I have them week #1, you have then week #2?
That's how true 50/50s often end up.

As a general rule I don't think 50/50 is in the best interest if children. I think that's a very adult-focussed approach.

I agree with this.

it may be an unpopular opinion view, but I think the best arrangement for children (but not necessarily parents …..) is EOW, possibly with a mid-week night, because it gives the children a “base”, which is generally with Mum, but they still see Dad often enough to maintain a good relationship. And of course each parent gets alternate weekends “off”. But if a man suggests EOW, Mumsnet accuses him of being a deadbeat Dad ….

I wonder if he is thinking that it will cost him less money and is going to leave kids regularly with grandparents.
Because it didn’t look from your post that he was an involved responsible dad of the year up until now.

Surprised there are so many posters who would be happy to let the dad have the kids the majority of the time.

(or is it that they don’t like 50:50 as long as it’s the mum with the majority of the time…)

Well the majority of time would be spent with the default parent, whereas I don’t know the specific statistics I would presume it is mostly Mum

Thank you all, it means so much just to talk and hear some other thoughts. I agree it’s up to him, but anything he suggests is random bizarre things that aren’t practical. Or bits here and there with no way of fitting it together.

Absolutely he’ll be relying on his parents. He’s never had the two of them for more than a couple of hours. Never cooked them dinner or got up with them in the morning. I think he’ll find it a shock once he has a place of his own. His mum will probably make meals and he thinks she could stay at his while he’s on call. But she’s 76, not in the best health, and I very much doubt she’d manage to get a 2 and 4 year old up and organised in the morning, then half hour drive to school/nursery. She’s already complained about coming up here more than once a week to collect/drop them off. His dad is in poor health since a series of heart attacks a few years ago. He doesn’t manage much for himself now. I have no problem with the kids spending time with them, but can’t see this being a practical/reliable one. And realistically isn’t going to be viable longer term.

I do need to bite the bullet and let DD try staying over. I think I’ve been hoping we could wait until he’s settled somewhere permanent (probably a few more months) and she’d just have one new place to get used to, and I’d offer to come over and help settle her in the evening to begin with. But he keeps shattering my confidence, I wobble and it brings back my fears of how distraught she gets. And I just can’t bring myself to put her through it 😔

I think it would do him good to see what true 50/50 looks like… you do week 1, he does week 2 (I know there are other ways of doing it as well).
Let him see what parenting 100% of the time looks like including drop offs/pick ups, sickness, baths, bedtimes etc. He’ll get a nasty shock.
I had a friend who did this as her ex wanted to do 50/50 to not pay maintenance… on his weeks he’d try ‘oh, I’ve got a work do’ or ‘x is sick and I can’t get the time off’. She was really firm with him and made him do it all on his weeks. He lasted a month and he was stressed the whole time.

I took a different tack and nodded and smiled when my exh said 50:50. Very few men actually step up and do it, he certainly didn't.
It is scary though, when you k ow what is best for the dc and the exh is throwing their weight around.
Good luck OP, you will be out the other side if this eventually.

I know of a few situations where the father wanted 50/50 and it was purely to avoid paying child maintenance, and the kids weren't properly cared for or given attention when with the father, in one case the children played second fiddle to his new partners children, his children mainly sat separately in their room entertaining thereselves all of the time.

Just be very careful of what his living/work situation will be and how good the care will be.

OP id just bite the bullet with your DD and let her stay with him. I totally understand why you haven't but he's never going to fully understand the parenting required for 50/50 until you do.

He needs to come up with a schedule that is workable and in the best interests of the children. His childcare whilst doing it is up to him, I'm sure his mum will soon get sick of doing it and won't cope and if he truly wants 50/50 he'll just have to sort it. The likelihood is that he won't last 50/50 when he realizes the work and money involved, he'll have to have everything the children need including clothes/uniforms etc.

My ex does a similar rolling shift pattern. We did 50/50 when we first split because in all honesty it was what dd was used to (she was 5) as he worked permanent nights.

His shifts have altered over the years, but I did put my foot down when she went to high school September 24 as she needed more stability. So she stays here all week but goes for tea 2 nights a week and then does every other weekend.

Why ia your ex so intent on 50/50

I would just suggest moving to next steps ..

I am going to sound harsh but if you continue to do the hard work he will steam ahead .

I would just suggest next steps rather than 50/50 because it sounds like it’s about the maintenance rather than the children .

give him Dd over night . Simply offer to collect if it doesn’t work . Let him flourish or fail ..

He is unlikely to want the reality of 50.50 when it comes to 50/50 costs . Doing 50% of the holidays .50% of the sickness .

Thank you all again… I think 50:50 to him is more a power/recognition thing. He’s not a very calm or reasonable person - but he’s good with the kids (tho obviously that’s yet to be tested with him by himself).

I think part of it is about money, he’s fixated that I’m all about money when I’m really not, it’s completely him. I’m the higher earner by a fair bit. And no matter what the share of childcare is, all I want is for him to cover half the childcare and half the big stuff like school uniforms, trips, clubs. Stuff that there’s actually a bill for. I don’t want anything for general maintenance regardless.

One other question for those who have been there - how does week on week off actually feel for toddlers/primary kids? I know they won’t ‘forget’ me but I know I’m struggling with feeling it’ll damage our close relationship. I completely understand that I have to do what’s best for them. But do they cope ok? How did it affect your relationship with them?

Thank you again, genuinely this is helping me loads and I’m feeling a lot less lonely. I have zero family nearby and friendships are hard between full time work and small children, so I don’t have much of a support network 😔

If I was you then genuinely I’d call his bluff now and say- okay- 50:50 it is, we’ll trial it for the next 2 weeks. Let him see what it actually is like and he may well do a complete turn around and decide he doesn’t want it & then this problem goes away entirely.

Week on/off can work, but at such a young age is not recommended. It is too long for the kids ad young as your dd and can be really harmful to their stability.

If he is going to demand it. I would suggest that you rotate every 3-4 days.

I would look at his rota and suggest what works best for the kids in the short term and sell it as "building up".

The kids need a stable life and a steady home base while they adjust. It needs to be done gently and at their pace.

I think I’ll suggest to begin with that we try one weeknight - we can vary this depending on his shifts, but it’s still reasonably stable for them, and every Friday assuming he’s not on a standby weekend, with the option of this or 2 nights every other weekend if it’s working for DD.

For his standby he needs to be within a certain distance of his base hub - at the moment that’s out of area so he’s in hotel style accommodation for his whole standby period. He’s hopefully getting a transfer, but his parents house may or may not be in the right zone. If it is, then I’m fine with the kids being with him on standby weekends with them taking over if he gets called out. But I don’t feel it’s right that if he’s away, they stay with his parents rather than their mum. Is that me being unfair?

He’s so shortsighted about the whole thing, but would probably be too stubborn to admit it wasn’t working and I worry for the kids sake. They’re so young and already had too much disruption. I owe it to them not to make a mess of this, and I’m trying so hard to put my feelings aside to put them first, while he’s just bullying his way through and I can’t even have a sensible conversation about it with him.

Some people are able to do what is best for their children and not themselves. It's a shame that it surprises you!

I can’t comment on shift patterns but I have experienced a lot of this.
We have had 50/50 for over 10 years now and my DC was 2 when we split. She went to her dad’s EOW and 2 nights per week from the start. The set nights were helpful to routines. He wasn’t dreadful but he did have to get a lot more organised to do a nursery and school drop off each morning. He did it and still does now, even though he’s moved further away. If he’s a decent dad he’ll make the effort.
It sounds like he isn’t though. I do think you have to let them both stay over with him regularly for a decent period of time. He needs to understand what it means to parent on his own, even with his parents there. He’ll likely change his ask quite quickly once reality sets in and you could negotiate a solution that you’re happier with.
Your DC’s will be upset you’re not there, but respectfully you all have to get used to this so delaying it isn’t helpful.

Sounds really sensible, start small and see how it goes.
I agree that would be unfair if he's away, the kids automatically stay with his mum - you should have the say on that on every occasion, they are young and if he's away, it's a bonus that you get to have them more of the time, it's better for them, he should not be of the mind set that they must be away from you a fixed amount of time, and that you mustn't have more than agreed.