Financial settlement advice

[DesperateDad25]

I and my ex are both early 40s and we have 2 children 11 and 16. We’ve been separated for 3 years and are at the final order stage of divorce which will be applied for once the finances have been finalised.

In a relationship since 2003 and married since 2017. Separation happened in 2022 after I discovered a second affair with a work colleague 15 years younger than my ex.

We own the family home jointly and there’s around 130k equity in it. She lives there with the children and I have rented since separation, I have the children every other weekend and a day/night in the week and pay the CMS amount of child maintenance after ex requested it to go through CMS. Prior to this we had an informal arrangement where I paid the same amount as now each month.

I work full time and a month prior to separation, was promoted and had a salary increase to 63k (from 42k). She has worked part time since 2012 until last year when she left her job (explained later) and took on a job working 10 hours per week for just over 9 months, she has since left that job and taken on a job at 27 hours a week paying 17k, in addition, she received 8k in UC, 2k in child benefit and 7k CMS. This wasn’t a usual housewife/career husband situation and household duties and school pick ups were mostly split with me cooking all the meals and all of the food shopping etc. From the point of separation and me moving out in August 2022, I contributed half of the mortgage, half of my daughters phone bill, half of club costs, half of a joint loan used to buy our cars (I sold mine due to receiving a company car and we used the money to do the garden) as well as the child maintenance. I kept this up for 2 years before it became untenable and I was beginning to accrue debts because I couldn’t maintain my own household costs as well as half of the mortgage. I had numerous messages and conversations asking for something to be done with the house but was met with anger each time. We eventually went to mediation where it was agreed the house wasn’t affordable and we needed to agree an equity split. It bounced around without an agreement until through sheer exhaustion I said she wins and could have the 75% she said she wanted. The 75% was agreed because at that point, the financial disclosure was based on her 10 hour a week income, not her new job and therefore she claimed her borrowing capacity was 70k. She argued she needed to be able to afford a 200k home and 75% allowed that based on the sale price.

After this, I went for a free appointment at a solicitors where they advised me not to agree to anything without a full disclosure and they would write to my ex to negotiate a fair settlement following disclosure. There was no financial disclosure and her responses to my solicitor were unreasonable. Her last proposal was 92.5% equity, £200 a month spousal maintenance until my youngest is 18 (8 years) and £5000 lump sum paid to account for my non contributions to the mortgage over the past 10 months. Obviously I rejected this and eventually submitted Form A to have this decided in court after she refused to accept my final proposal of 63/37% in her favour. She had updated her mortgage capacity to 134k from her original 70k and 63% represented enough to purchase a 200k house as stated in mediation.

At financial disclosure ahead of filing Form E, there were some things that hadn’t been discussed. Almost £2000 of undeclared earnings from ebay sales, nearly £4000 of contributions from her partner, a £15k payment that was paid into her account from her previous employer which turned out to be a settlement based on her claiming constructive dismissal, of which £7k was transferred into her sisters account which she claims was a repayment to a loan from her sister (no payment into her account exists from her sister) I have sent a questionnaire asking for evidence and details relating to the above and essentially received a reply that said ‘I’ve told you what they are and that’s enough’

At the first appointment hearing it went badly and she was extremely angry claiming I was trying to sell the house from under her and had gone back on a 75/25 agreement. The judge directed her to research houses at 200k and consider shared ownership following the sale of the house as well as send new questionnaires to each other, he also stated that as the part time work has existed she wouldn’t be expected to seek full time work (I have asked for details of the alleged family loan, contributions from partner and ebay income on my last questionnaire)

The house had a sale agreed after being on the market for a year, but she has refused to sign paperwork instructing the conveyancing solicitor to begin work, requested the house be removed from sale and after 6 weeks of no movement, the buyers have had enough and pulled out. She has now refused to allow people to view the house. Since May 2024 (when I stopped contributing towards the mortgage) she has refused to pay the mortgage and instead only pays half, citing that I am not paying my share and it is currently 4k in arrears. During these 12 months she has booked 4 holidays (3 abroad, 1 in this country) she has answered that her boyfriend (the affair partner) doesn’t live there but I drive past the house on the way to and from work and his car is always there. His contributions also time with bills and food shops.

Following the hearing, I reached out to offer to split at 50k to me and the remaining 77k to her. Pensions would be retained by each of us (hers is 45k, mine is 30k) her savings can be kept and I will keep my debts (10k through furnishing a home from scratch as I left with an old TV and legal fees which I have had to stop due to the expense) she can keep all furniture and assets and her car, all of which were jointly bought during our marriage. She has rejected this and proposed 35k to me and everything else to her, £200 a month spousal, £5k lump paid to her.

Our FDR is now in September but I feel like I’m being held financially hostage and would just like a bit of independent validation that I’m not being nuts for asking for 50k as a fair settlement from almost 20 years of a relationship and marriage. I just want this over and to move on with my life and be able to afford a home for my children that is ours and not rented.

50:50 equity split
Zero spousal maintenance ( she will not be awarded this )
cms at calculated rate.

she’ll either need to work full time or pt + uc + cms and rent if mortgage capacity not high enough

You should be looking to settle I’d say no more than 55:45 split

I very much doubt any judge is going to look at all of this and give her what she wants. She should be working full time with children of those ages and Im surprised she's got away with only working part time.

She wont get spousal maintenance and I think youre being more than fair with your offer.

What she's asking for his absolutely ridiculous. Stand your ground and keep hold of any emails/texts you have from her showing she's blocking people viewing the house and dragging her heels

Shes a cheeky fucker isn't she!

Thanks, I just want a bit of a sanity check. Both me and my solicitor have begged her to seek legal advice to reach a fair agreement but she’s consistently said she cannot afford an hours appointment to get a legal perspective on her approach to negotiations.

After 3 years, I just want this over and done with

There’s no chance she’ll get spousal, and she’ll be expected to work much more to maximise her earnings. Times have changed, thankfully.

Wow, and I thought my ex was deluded!!!

Go for 50:50

Your EW won’t get anything near what she is demanded. The split will be based on the needs of both of you - not her wants.

When my now DH sorted his divorce finances - this is what his EW demanded (the kids were 7 & 10 at the time). She hadn’t worked for 11 years (she stopped working was she was pregnant and she refused to work / get a job).

She wanted:

To stay in the house for a further 11 years and he pay the mortgage & upkeep in full

On the sale - she received 75% of the equity

Spousal maintenance of £12k per year for 11 years (he was earning around £70k)

A lump sum of £3k

Child maintenance of £900 pm (from memory the CMS recommended was £700)

A new car

Half of all his pensions (she didn’t have any and they had married when he was 37).

She demanded this throughout and wouldn’t flex. He was paying the mortgage in full for a house he didn’t live in (and had moved out 4 years earlier) as well as rent on a 1 bed flat.

It went to 3rd & final hearing and despite him making her many offers - she refused them all.

The judge awarded her:

She was told to get a job and start supporting herself. Spousal maintenance was laughed at and throw out by the judge. She didn’t get the £3k lump or new car.

The judge ordered the house to be sold immediately. EDH agreed she could stay for a further 3 years. Judge stipulated that she had to pay the mortgage & upkeep in full herself. When the house was sold she got 67%.

He agreed to pay £950 pm
child maintenance on the provision that she didn’t ask for any more money for activities / clothes etc. 1 week after the judgment she was demanding more money for something & she regularly withheld child context slid she didn’t get it. So after 12 months - he went through the CMS.

She was awarded 50% of one of his pensions (which had accumulated during the marriage).

My recommendation would be to let a judge decide if she can’t be reasonable. Good luck.

Oh and 4 years later when it came to the sale of the former marital home (which she had agreed to) - she refused to sell.

So she was taken back to court to enforce the signed contact order. Despite getting £200k of equity she pleaded that she was being made homeless.

The judge ordered the immediate sale & put a timeline in place. She was told if she obstructed he would remove her from the process & he would sign everything on her behalf.

My now DH applied to the court in the December. The court case was Debian’s the house was sold / it completed by the end of June.

You shouldn't be paying for the kids via CMS and also contributing to all their costs should you?

I thought the point of CMS was to cover those costs if one parent was the majority carer.
Me and my ex are 50/50 therefore share the kids costs as we don't have CMS in place (and don't need to as we are amicable enough)

I don’t pay towards the mortgage and CMS anymore. I did for nearly 2 years but it financially battered me and after repeatedly saying I couldn’t keep doing it, I stopped paying towards the mortgage. At the point I stopped paying, the mortgage was moved onto interest only which was around 60% of the full payment and she paid this. When the interest only period ended that is when she refused to pay the full amount and only paid 50% saying I should be paying the rest.

I don’t have 50/50 care, I’m 1 day a week short of that so I have an obligation to pay maintenance which I do. My children have what they want and if they need dinner money on their accounts or want something that’s reasonable, I’ll sort it. The children don’t need to be told ‘I pay CMS so talk to your mum’

Likewise, I’ll buy uniform and clothes for them and will contribute equally towards school shoes, blazers, school trips etc. Moral obligation sits in a different place to legal obligation and I will always do what’s morally right, regardless what my feelings are towards my ex.

My concern around the court hearing was that the judge was saying that because the part time work existed throughout the majority of the marriage then she wouldn’t be expected to find full time work and he said that as you work more, UC goes down by this amount which isn’t correct (I’ve checked on entitledto.co.uk)

Spousal maintenance causes uc go go down but your not in spousal territory.

there will 100% be an expectation that she either works full time or she manages on pt plus uc because there are enough assets or income to provide for her to remain pt and you subsidise that. The children are old enough to not have the pt work argument

I agree with other posters- she won’t get spousal maintenance. This is very unusual these days and only really if one is a very very high earner.

She will be expected to work full time, or she can choose to work part time but you won’t be expected to top that up as it’s her choice.
A sale of the house can be forced legally.

starting point for a court will be 50/50 (i was advised).

CMS is not for all the costs for the kids, it is the legal minimum towards housing and food. and i think not enough people realise that clothes, clubs, holidays, gifts are on top of maintenance

I think my nervousness comes from the judge saying that this is a needs case and as such there will be an unequal division of the pot. He stated that pensions would likely remain our own as we are both young in his eyes, that our net incomes and income needs are almost identical and that the departure from equality is because my earnings are higher and she has less means available to earn more due to her age.

While he didn’t give a direct indication at the first appointment, it felt like he was accepting of her borrowing capacity of 134k based on part time working and equity split would bring her up to 200k and then said plus some for legal costs and moving costs. I asked my mortgage broker to hypothetically work out her borrowing capacity based on full time working (ft salary is on her payslip and there is the ability to increase her hours at the same job), the CMS payment and also the benefits which were worked out through entitledto calculator and it showed a capacity of 170k.

I’m aware that at FDR the judge will give an indication on how he would determine it if he was the final hearing judge and know that it will be a different judge at final hearing if we are unable to agree at the FDR.

I don’t see how I have to work full time and maximise my earnings but he indicated the same rule doesn’t apply to my ex. I shouldn’t be expected to subsidise an unwillingness to work full time

It may be an unequal division - but I’d be highly surprised if it was anything near what she is existing/demanding.

a judge can’t force someone to work ft - but will separate assets on the presumption that both parties can work full time where there are not enough assets or earnings to go round. It is a needs case yes but you both need the sane housing ( doesn’t have to be mortgaged) and with the ages of children there is no way she can argue she needs to remain pt so you won’t have to subsidise that.

what’s her monthly income now with pt /uc /cns ? What would her ft salary be ?

Monthly income now is
Salary - 17k
UC - 7.8k
CMS - 6.6k
Child Benefit 2.2k
Her net is currently 2.8k although this isn’t including the eBay income or contributions from her partner.

Monthly income if working FT is
Salary - 23.6k
UC - 6.1k
CMS - 6.6k
Child benefit- 2.2k
Her net would be around 3.1k before counting eBay and partner contributions.

For context, once my CMS is paid, she would have slightly more than me net if she was working full time.

I’m accepting of the uneven division and I’m not interested in the remaining assets, savings, pensions, debt sharing etc. purely to split the equity from the house and be able to go our separate ways financially, she seems fixated on punishing me by refusing to negotiate or compromise, simply because I didn’t accept her behaviour and left.

My credit rating is battered due to the mortgage falling into arrears and besides paying a sum of money that I cannot afford, I’m just watching it get worse (and my ability to get a mortgage with it) until a court enforces a sale

And that’s the point I’m trying to make - her monthly income is not dissimilar to yours - hence 50:50 near asset split is fair. You need to be resolute in that and remaining factual on that basis.

Greedy cow. When I split from my ex husband I fortunately managed to buy him out (with the help of my dear late Dad) for 50% of the equity. I could have got more but I wanted the kids to have a nice home when they were with him. I wouldn’t let him pay a penny towards the mortgage from the day he moved out because he needed it for rent.

He pays me a fair amount of child support and is often asking if I need more, which I decline as I don’t want him to be paying for my lifestyle, just for the kids.

We actually Co-parent well and get on as friends now, and reading this thread is making me understand why.

Honestly let the judge sort it out, she is being horrifically unreasonable and anyone with half a brain can see that.

Thanks all, it’s really appreciated and the sanity check from a (mostly) mums perspective is really important.

We used to co-parent excellently and I would accommodate changes in the schedule and likewise she would do the same if I had a work meeting to go to (once every few months) We would attend school events together and there was no issue at all until I stopped paying towards the mortgage, even though I messaged in January 24 saying I couldn’t continue doing it and didn’t actually stop until May 24 when I sorted out the interest only deal at her request. After that, her anger and outbursts made sure we co-parent like it’s a business interaction now.

My children know we don’t get on and while they know we don’t agree, they don’t know the reasons or the financial details, I’ve stressed that if they have any questions then I’ll answer them as honestly as possible because I’m aware they are subject to the story being told by my ex.

Actually it is meant to be towards the general day to day costs of raising a child- food, clothing, housing, healthcare, educational needs. It won’t cover them in full, but is the expected proportion for that parent. So for example, a completely absent parent would be expected to pay the amount that would be considered reasonable for 50% of the time.

This doesn’t include things which are a lifestyle choice of the individual parent, like clubs etc

I think you may be seeing this wrong. This wasn’t determined a needs based case on a whim. Your salary is around 63k whilst hers is around 17k. She is primary child carer. You have stopped paying the mortgage threatening housing security for your DC. You also said you stopped paying child maintenance? There will be a reason why the judge is not ordering that your ex work full time. Your wife only receives UC because you are separated, same with child maintenance. Once the children are older she will not receive this. Same with CB.

If DC are able to be financially independent from age 16 or 18 when benefits stop you are still left with a fairly wide differential of income even if you both work full time.

Like you say, this was a long marriage where you continued to work full time and your wife was primary carer and worked part time with limited ability to accrue pension.

The court will take this into consideration. They will also consider whether you stopped paying the mortgage before financial settlement and stopped paying child maintenance reasonably. Did you lose your job? Some debts are considered a priority. Like mortgage. You are expected to default on lesser payments and enter into debt repayment agreements before you stop paying a mortgage.

Stop focusing on your ex and her new partner. It’s skewing your behaviour. Focus on your DC and a fair settlement.

I think you’ve misinterpreted things. My salary is 63k and hers is 17k but our net incomes are almost identical and her working part time has been and is a choice. Yes, her CMS will reduce in 8 years but this will be almost 11 years after our separation, her earnings, ability to work more hours and her living arrangements could be significantly different.

I stopped paying the mortgage as there was no desire to settle finances, I was paying almost 40% of my salary to her before I touched one of my own bills and she continually refused to disclose her finances. I stopped paying towards it 2 years after I moved out and almost 6 months after I said I was unable to continue contributing to a house I didn’t live in. I don’t believe this is threatening house security when instead of paying the full mortgage, she has booked 4 holidays and has the money available to pay the mortgage but chooses not to. She also has a large sum of money that she transferred to her sister under the guise of a family loan that isn’t accounted for anywhere, but does conveniently take her just under the 6k savings limit for UC.

I haven’t stopped paying maintenance and nowhere did I say I had? I pay what the CMS instructed and continue to pay towards other expenses.

As I said, this wasn’t the housewife/career husband setup and the assumption that she was the sole carer of the children is wildly incorrect. When she left her previous job of 25 hours a week, she took on a 10 hour a week position doing work she wanted to do, rather than seek a job with more hours. Likewise, the argument about pensions holds little weight when hers is worth 50% more than mine due to it being a public sector pension she had prior to her redundancy 15 years ago. During the 2 years that I continued to contribute a large part of my salary to her she could have looked to retrain or anything else to maximise her earnings. Instead she worked 2.5 hours a day for 4 days a week. Even now, she originally didn’t get the job she is in due to her specific desire to only work part time while they wanted someone full time. They took her on with a view that a FT position is available and she was the best candidate, albeit not willing to work the hours they wanted.

Am I expected to default on my credit agreements and debts, to pay towards a mortgage for a house I haven’t lived in for 3 years while she pays half the mortgage, books holidays and sits with thousands in her bank or her family’s bank accounts?

You have been more than reasonable
your ex is totally unreasonable
people on here take the view that all mums are self sacrificing and all dads are out to rob them. Totally untrue. Your ex has every opportunity to support herself and improve her finances but she’s the opposite and believes you owe her forever. You don’t.

crack on and push for 50:50 or near that

I agree with this also pension sharing as this is standard and a Judge would expect this. I feel you are pussyfooting around your exw and afraid to say no to her. My exh was a lot like your exw. He demanded 80 percent of equity despite us both working full time and paying half the mortgage each. I handed it all over to my solicitor and told them to get me the best possible settlement you can. Then I refused to discuss with exh further and kept referring him to discuss with my solicitors. I ended up with 55/45 equity from house, pension sharing and I kept most furniture. My solicitors offered 50/50 equity split and pension sharing in writing to his solicitors which is what I said I thought was fair and exh turned me down flat. Eventually it went to court and Judge said exh was being unreasonable and most exh would have snapped my hand off for such an offer. Hence I was awarded slightly more as our youngest DC had SEN and I had to go from working full time to 30 hours a week as exh refused to collect from school twice a week after we split up. He had always collected twice a week before we separated and because of SEN it was very difficult to get childcare. I think you'll find the Judge will tell your exw she is being unreasonable. My exh grumbled about having to pay maintenance yet didn't want shared care either. Don't lose contact with your DC. We shared a business too and exh stoleoney from business. Judge ordered him to buy me out at full market value or sell business. I had to employ a forensic accountant to track downisdong money. He was my expert in court and provided a paper trail of exh stealing money from business.

Just an update as things have escalated. Between this and now there had been no contact, I am simply waiting for the next court date.

Yesterday, a work meeting dropped in for 3 weeks time that clashed with a day I am scheduled to have the children. I messaged my ex asking if I could move the day with the children to the previous day, an approach we have both previously agreed to. She agreed and asked if I had plans with my son for his birthday (his birthday is on a Sunday and I am scheduled to have him for the weekend) and could she have him back at lunchtime so she could see him. I replied that I had planned a day out taking him to a trampoline park, arcade and out for a meal but could drop him back early evening when we were finished.

She replied ‘don’t worry about it’ before saying that she will not accommodate any date changes in the future for my work (there have been 3 occasions this year where it has happened) I replied that I would have to make other arrangements and that it was disappointing that our children would then spend the time with other family when they should be with me. I also highlighted the occasions where she had booked holidays that infringed my time with the children and didn’t give me advance notice and asked if the date change refusal was to work both ways.

She then told me that my contact and access to the children would stop immediately and that I would need to get a court order as I said I suggested that contact go through solicitors as we are obviously unable to speak rationally. My daughter (16) messaged (just after her grow up comment so early in the conversation) to say she didn’t like how I spoke to her mum and that she had decided she wouldn’t be coming to mine today (both scheduled to be with me today) this morning, my daughter messaged that my son had decided to stay there today instead of being with me.

I have emailed my ex imploring her to put the children first and to not make us go through the court/CAFCASS process but is my only other option to make an application to the court? I know it may seem like I’m missing bits out but I genuinely don’t know why she’s so angry and vicious. I’ve attached the messages but tried to cover the bits that show names/locations etc