Joint property and uncooperative ex - what now?

[justfindingmyway]

Hi lovely people of MN.

i received some fantastic support here through a really tricky time over the past year or so. I imagine you’ll be able to view my previous posts, but I’ll try to summarise succinctly;

• saw red flags with ex partner early on but rose tinted glasses and an eroded self esteem over six years with him kept me mentally stuck
• we bought a house together. He always made me feel like it was his house, I just lived in it, despite me paying half the mortgage, and a smaller deposit on the basis he incurred stamp duty and I didnt
• despite my demise over the course of the relationship (living on eggshells, things broken in the home which I guess was a show of dominance, verbal abuse and name calling, silent treatment as a form of punishment, the list goes on) when he proposed, stupidly I said yes, and tried to kid myself that I could sustain the life I lived with him
• fast forward a few months, I had my breaking point with him when I realised I was pregnant, and I couldn’t imagine anything more terrifying than having to put a child through the emotional trauma I’m now suffering due to my time with him. I called it all off and eventually, left the home
• I wanted to sell the house, which he refused to do, and said he could buy me out at the median price of the value of the house. I should add at this point, he is self employed, and was very secretive about money
• since December, when I left the house as I was scared for my own wellbeing there, he’s been living in it and we’d agreed an amount at which he could buy me out
• because he is self employed, he has dragged this all out, citing he needs to wait until the new tax year commences in April to apply for a mortgage, at which point no doubt, his declared income will all of a sudden double
• I decided that waiting until then was the quickest way to escape the situation. The funds would be the deposit on my next place, which I have an offer accepted on
• anyway, I received a letter today from his solicitor, that he is struggling to get a mortgage, and that he now wishes to retract his offer to settle as he feels it’s unrealistic, and he wants to sell with immediate effect, and wants to value the house lower than what he offered me to buy me out
• He’s also saying that I need to compensate him for half of the mortgage that he took over for the last couple of months as he’d been living there alone, and demanding that he buy me out, so my solicitor said then it is reasonable for him to cover the mortgage

anyway, if you’ve gotten this far (which I really appreciate), I just feel like a fish out of water now. No doubt I’ll lose my place I’d secured, which, frustratingly, I have a survey booked on tomorrow, so more money down the pan. I’ve paid a solicitor for the new place, and also incurred several thousand in legal feels for the solicitor who is handling the jointly owned house.

i just feel like I’m playing a horrible game of chess with an incredibly manipulative, and dare I use the word, narcissistic individual. I really don’t know what to do next, and how best to move.

He’s also trying to demand that I choose three estate agents, and that he ultimately decides which to go with. I already had the house valued twice last spring, so I know what it was worth then.

I wonder whether he is trying to go for a lower value so he can be the one to buy it himself, or get a family member to. I assume that if he isn’t lying about not being able to get a mortgage, that he can’t do it in his name.

i just want to be free of this man, and I feel like stuck in a sticky web, and just as soon as I get three limbs free, he pulls me back in with another game.

i’d be ever so grateful for any advice, pearls of wisdom or people’s perhaps similar experiences, and any ideas as to where I turn next.

thank you all x

Let me help you here. Firstly don’t be shaken by what he says - it’s all BS. Do this properly and go through the court system as he’s trying to swindle you. If you haven’t filed for divorce already, do so citing you want to go directly for a financial order with no mediation. It will speed up the process. They can demand you pay the bills/contribute all they want but legally you don’t have to pay anything. That’s what comes from being married - I know this as my exH didn’t contribute to the mortgage or bills for the last two years of our divorce and wasn’t forced to.

speak to a lawyer if you can. Essentially you’ll both have to declare all your assets and it’s likely that it will be split 50:50. In terms of valuation of the house, the court ordered me to sever 5 estate agents, exDH had to choose 3 and then value was average price of all three together.

do some digging and see if you can find evidence of value of all accounts, savings and pensions and any other assets. I have a feeling he won’t declare it all.

it would be helpful if you confirm whether you are married or not. But my assumption is that you aren’t.

I would reply to his solicitors offer stating that you will make a decision on price and marketing when the valuations are provided. It’s ridiculous to use the lowest agent - use the best agent for your situation. You should confirm that all offers must be considered and agreed by both of you. In your shoes take a reasonable offer if it suits you.

I would ignore the request for money towards the mortgage costs. Don’t provide any response. When and if it comes to court you will get 50% regardless of who pays the mortgage unless you agree to something else. The risk here is that he will stop paying the mortgage. You need to keep an eye on this risk. But don’t say anything on this issue. Then it can’t be held against you.

He is willing to sell. Decide what price you will agree to and if you get a reasonable offer, sell it. Forget what he might be up to. You cover your risk by only agreeing to a reasonable offer and getting independent valuations.

Thanks so much. Yes, apologies, a key fact here is that we are not married (thank goodness, I know it’d potentially make this situation more cut and dry but I am not sure I’d have the resilience to have put my family through a day of faked happiness and then have to unpick a divorce from him!) and no agreements were ever drawn up regarding the house.

so I’ve had a solicitor in play for a few weeks now, and perhaps I have skewed expectations here but I don’t feel she really fights my corner and acts more as a go between, passing messages on and, in this final instance, she’s left it so late that I’d booked a survey on the other place in the meantime that I’ll no doubt have to pay for as it’s meant to be happening today!

I think you’re right re. the money he’s trying to demand. Perhaps ignoring that is best as no acknowledgement may serve me better later. I also don’t really want to be spending £300 an hour for my solicitor to be dissecting this whole mess he’s making whilst nothing actually moves forward. I need a succinct letter from her, perhaps just ignoring a lot of the rubbish he’s come out with, saying I won’t be accepting anything lager than fair market value, and that we’ll be using an agent we both agree on, and leave it at that???

I remember distinctly before I left him and cancelled our wedding after I’d asked to postpone and he said no, ‘don’t try and kid a kidder’. I know I need to find the strength from somewhere and i have to put on my big girl pants now, but I feel like a scared little girl, staring down this situation in my mid thirties, and I can’t even think about how to start again now!

thanks so much for your response, which has been so helpful x

Thank you so much for your insight and shared experience. I sincerely hope life is good for you now and you have healed from all of the mess that comes from trying to clear the way for a new life.

i should’ve added, that we are not married. My apologies, i have so much to unpack and I only found out yesterday, so my head is in a spin x

Putting the emotions aside it’s not that difficult.get some estate agents to value it, chose one the put it on the market. It’s ultimately worth what someone will pay. You might not get asking price ( which is usual to sell at 90-95% of asking)if you own it as joint tenants you are due 50% equity which will be price less mortgage less estate agents fees regardless if not paying mortgage for a few months. Ignore him but know that you could charge him occupational rent as he has sole use if your asset.

the house may be worth same as last spring or more or less depending on the area you live.

yes great points, thanks! I did consider the occupational rent element, but do not know anyone who has done it personally, and I do not know what evidence you need for a successful claim in that regard. I really do now understand what people mean when they say the only winners are the solicitors. I have learnt some very valuable lessons about what is needed to consider marrying someone, and who they are at their core! Mind you, I guess you do not always discover what lies beneath right away.

I wouldn’t bother trying to pursue an occupational rent. There isn’t really a legal avenue unless you agree to it. And it’s probably better to not agree to anything and let him pay. But it is a point of fairness. Yes he is paying your half of the mortgage but he is receiving a benefit for that by occupying the whole house.

Thanks, that is what I wondered, and I guess it is probably pricey to implement. Trouble is, I am realising I am not dealing with a reasonable person. I have really tried to be amicable, and I am at a point now where if I don't play hardball, he's going to run rings round me. Problem is, if I don't pay my half and he doesn't pay, I guess that leaves me in a really precarious situation when it comes to getting another place. Honestly, what a mess. I am so disappointed as I did believe he wanted the house above all else. Maybe he does, and simply cannot, and this is the fall out. I know he'll be utterly seething!!!

I know you said he was abusive so this may be a big fat no, but could you say that there is only one scenario where you will be paying half mortgage and that’s where you move back in? Perhaps take a family member with you? I would just get the estate agents to value it and speak to them all before the draw up the final valuation and instruct them to value it at the same (fair) level and get it on the market ASAP.

Thank you, yeah I think you’re right, what’s scaring me is I suspect his plan is to have it valued lower, so he can then swoop in and buy it himself at a lower price, despite saying he’s struggling to get a mortgage. It’s such a scary feeling because I haven’t done this before and don’t know if many separations like this around me. I’m just so anxious of him now. And what he might do! I have to be ten steps ahead all the time, and it’s so draining. I don’t have the will to fight like he does, and I need to find it so he doesn’t screw me entirely for my next house

he never actually physically hit me, but he was intimidating and very derogatory. I know it probably sounds silly as he hasn’t hit me, but I’m just so anxious to be anywhere near him now. Even the thought of him gives me a tremor, realise it probably is daft but I’ve had so many bad memories in that house, and with him. I just think it might break me. But I’ll have to go back in order to sell, I don’t know what state the house is in since I left. I took videos before I did luckily, but I don’t know what to expect. I am praying this is a tactic to get me to accept a lower offer, and he does want to buy me out. I suspect it is, because he’s saying he cannot get a mortgage due to foam insulation. I understand the rules have changed recently, but his mortgage broker said it was only that particular lender that noted the insulation and that others may be ok with it. I wonder if it’s all a ploy.

If he can't buy you out, it will have to be sold. Joint tenants? Legally you are entitled to 50% of the equity.
Would he agree to a RICS surveyor valuation as they are more accurate/realistic than estate agents?
If so, ask him to choose one and offer to pay.
With that, you can take him to court to force sale if he starts being daft around selling.
I assume that there is enough equity to make this worth while?

Thank you, and yes, most certainly it is worthwhile as there is over 200k of equity in the property, albeit now he wants to sell, he’s claiming it is worth less, which is very odd as I can’t see why that works in his favour, unless, as I mentioned before, he is sneakily hoping to still buy it at a lower cost or get a family member to, despite saying he couldn’t get a mortgage.

It’s possible the house value has dropped since last year. Look on sold prices on right move for similar houses where you live - that will be a useful guide for you to see if his offer is fair or not.

I think what may have spurred this is a lovely old lady close to where I lived must’ve died recently, and her house went on the market for the price he offered me for ours, but ultimately dropped by 50k. That said, the area hasn’t dropped, and that house would’ve been probate, so may have wanted a quick sale. Also, he’s stalled for months, I wonder if it was a tactic. I’m sure advice would be against going to court, but I wonder if I could now for breach of agreement, among other things. I have lots of medical documentation in relation to how unwell he made me in the relationship, along with proof of his offer and my acceptance for the property cost back in December. My head is spinning!

get an estate agent out to value it. Ask about offer price vs asking price. Ask them what they’re seeing in your area. Use right move

then either negotiate with your ex on a price to buy you out or agree to put on the market

anything else will involve costly legal fees and the only winners will be the lawyers! You won’t win a breech of agreement

you’re making this more complicated than it needs be

Perhaps, but I stand to lose a large chunk of my deposit on the next property with the fees and taxes, plus, he’s trying to undervalue it and has done from the start

but you can get can get valuations and an understanding of values ( realistic ones) and agree to sell or let him buy you out

and your earlier message said he wants to sell with immediate effect so why can’t you do so and put it in the market ?

what deposit and tax are you referring to - you should not be exchanging on buying a house until this is resolved so I’m not clear on this

There are risks associated with this whole process. You need to identify and be prepared to manage those risks either before they arise and when or if they arise.

The approach to marketing the property needs to be mutually agreed. You both need valuations. You need to understand each others primary objective. Is it a quick sale or are you willing to wait for a good offer. A lot depends on the local market.

it is worth being h cognisant of recent conditions. The probate property has been dropped in price. Maybe for a quick sale or maybe for a realistic sale. Arguably a probate property is more sellable that yours. I would go for a probate property over a divorcing or separated couple. There are completion risks with both.

If he has been paying the mortgage to date he probably will continue to do so. But keep an eye on the account. If he fails to pay some or all then take action. But right now you are speculating he won’t pay. It isn’t in his interests to stop paying either.

If that is too risky then offer to pay half going forward. But don’t agree that you interest is less than 50%.