Can he dictate where I live/my childcare arrangements

[Sadgirl101]

In the process of splitting with 'D'H, due to financial position and work prospects, my only feasible option is to move back to live with my parents for a couple of years.

3 DC 8, 7 and 5. My parents are supportive and involved, and have space, so I could continue 50:50 childcare while living there. Ex H will not like this as he always clashed with my mum (it was mutual, she was clearly a far better judge of character than I was!) he also regularly states that for 50:50 childcare, my 50% needs to be provided by me and not outsourced as they are my kids and not anybody else's

In my opinion, what happens on my time, provided the kids are supported and safe and there are no safeguarding issues, is my business, and it's not up to him to dictate whether my parents can help with childcare as and when required (I work shifts so occasionally it may be unavoidable that I need to work on a day I am due to have the kids, but I will obviously work to try and minimise this so I can spend time with them!)

Can he legally stop me living there, or from using my parents to help with childcare? I'm going back to see my solicitor next week and will ask them but wanted to check!

He can’t stop you deciding where you as an adult decide to live. But he does have some say over the parenting arrangements for your joint children. As do you in return.

There is potential for either parent to request that they have preference over the children being with them rather than leaving them with childminders. If a child is going to be predominantly or wholly with a childminder the argument goes they should be with the other parent. It is difficult to contend the children need to be with you 3/4 days per week if you aren’t spending that time together because you are working and they are in school.

Most parents don’t get this reductive. Because they both rely on childcare to work and manage the Co parenting arrangement.

It appears he is overstepping and over reaching on this issue. He is also mixing in his dislike of your mother and her dislike of him. He probably worries she will try to influence his children’s opinion of him. It goes without saying that your children should not be involved in any conflict or antipathy between you and him or your mother and him. They have a familial relationship and a bond neither of you have. He will be hyper vigilant on this point and you need to make sure your mother doesn’t give him cause to complain.

Fundamentally he can ask that the children are with him instead of childminders. He can also ask that neither you or your mother disparage him. He might be expressing that badly and in a high handed way now but he won’t be doing that in court. Or at least his lawyer won’t.

So when it’s his 50% time, how is he going to watch his kids whilst also working if he believes that only parents should do childcare?

This doesn’t make sense?

technically, no, he doesn't get to insist on how you look after your children in "your" time. However, I would think that if he took you to court and your children were being looked after byyour mum half of your time, he might have a strong argument for him getting more custody. But I suspect that would depend on a LOT of variables so it's something I'd ask your solicitor. Certainly, he doesn't get a say in where you live, sasuming it is safe, appropriate etc.

As always, there are shades of grey.

No, he doesn’t get to dictate where you live, provided you’re not moving the kids out of area, and that it is safe/suitable/not overcrowded etc.

No, he can’t dictate that your parents care for the kids, provided there’s no concern for their safety, no history of parents disparaging him to the kids etc etc. It is also not uncommon for a CAO to have a clause saying that the other parent has first refusal of time with the kids rather than leaving them with babysitters/childcare. This could apply here if you’re leaving the kids with your parents for hours at a time, though it would be daft to ask that you offer the time to him if you’re popping out for a GP appointment for example. But yes, he could push for more time with them if you’re leaving the kids in childcare/with your parents while you work, as long as that time would then be spent with him (and not his childcare/parents!).

If he is not helping to provide his children with a roof over their heads then he should be happy you are doing all you can and if it means living with your parents due to the split then it should not be of his concern. If he is so against it perhaps he would be willing to maybe let you stay in the family home or help in some way with the cost of you renting a place?
What does he propose he will do 50% of the time when he has the kids if he has to work or is he taking them with him? I can see why you are splitting up. He sounds like a controlling arsehole.

You wouldn’t be penalised for using childcare during your 50% of the time. Most parents can’t work if they couldn’t use childcare. Unless your parents are on the sex offenders register or something, he can’t complain.
The same goes the other way- you have no say in who he uses unless it’s a safety issue.
He’s not unreasonable to worry that your mum will speak negatively about him to the kids though. Hopefully she loves the kids enough that she can keep her opinions to herself. He might request that handovers don’t happen at your parents house too which is understandable and would benefit the kids too. Even if they are unaware now, they will find out that gran and dad don’t get along in good time. Thus might mean you doing more drop offs and pick ups than he does.

Thanks all

To address a few points
On his (school) days the kids will be in wraparound care, but he lives close enough that he can work within those hours. Holidays his job can be fairly flexible, so with only 50% of the time to cover, I expect he will either use annual leave or take them with him (which is an option for him, and they would initially be thrilled although I suspect the novelty may wear off) or ask his mum to cover one day a week in the holidays etc.

I work shifts and my aim will be to roster as many as possible when they are with their dad, so it is likely I will actually see them more than he does, I invisage my parents stepping in, for example, if I worked a night shift, I would be home until c. 6.30 to do tea and spend time with them, my parents may just need to physically put them into bed and do school drop off in the morning, but I would be back to pick up from school etc. I am not forseeing doing any long days that would mean I don't see them at all that day, during their time with me except in exceptional circumstances. On my days off I wouldnt need to use wraparound care, or holiday clubs etc.

House wouldn't be overcrowded, kids would have their own rooms etc .

Re relationship between him and my mum, I can 100% guarantee that she would not say anything to or in front of the children, and neither would I. I can't be so sure he would hold himself to the same values, but she would never want to do that to the kids, or put me in a position where I had to manage that. She has even said (to me) that even if the kids were with him, if he had a childcare emergency and I wasn't available, she would step in and help for the sake of the kids, rather than leaving him to struggle or them to suffer. He sees her as overbearing and trying to be too involved with the kids, in reality it was her stepping in to offer me the support and respite that he didn't and I suspect he felt threatened. He was/is a lousy husband but he is not a bad dad and it is important to me that I can look myself and my kids in the eye 15 years from now and know in all honesty that I did not do anything to impair their relationship with their dad.

His argument to this would be that he would happily keep them full time. I don't actually think this is true, but I think he would believe it enough to double down and it's not a game of chicken I want to engage in.

We have been trialling cohabiting for a while in the same home but as you have identified, he is a controlling arsehole and continues to feel the entitlement to dictate how I parent on "my" time, insists on stepping in rather than me asking my mum to help if I needed it for an appointment or whatever, and then complains that he is doing more than 50%. My hope was that being in separate houses would draw some of that to a close, but perhaps I'm being naive. I will definitely discuss it with my solicitor

Oh so he gets to use wrap around care but you’re not allowed childminders? Even if they LIVE there and are grandparents? Ask him to pop that on an email. He’s so full of shit. And I confidently predict that he won’t do anything like 50:50. This is a ploy to reduce maintenance and punish you.

Totally agree with this!
He's a controlling arsehole

Do your DC have a good relationship with your parents?
How far away are you planning to move?

Yes a very good relationship, they see them weekly and are very comfortable with them. Its about a 15/20 mins drive depending on traffic, but we will facilitate the commute to school which is c. 25 minutes each way to avoid any battle about moving them. I am hoping living with my parents will be a temporary stop gap, and when looking at properties have already limited myself to areas that are feasible for the catchment secondary school based on DH address, as I know suggesting they went elsewhere and he had to facilitate getting them there would be highly contentious

I'd love to see his argument that he can use childcare/GPs but you can't. If he was a great dad he'd put the welfare of the children above his dislike for your DM. Get things straight with your solicitor and avoid getting caught up in pointless discussions with your ex. Just because he's prodding you doesn't mean you have to respond.

What you do and who you see in your time is your choice as long as no safety concerns. But the courts will prioritise the kids spending time with a parent.

I know someone who's ex took them to court for 50/50 because they didn't want to pay maintenance but they worked away in another country Monday-friday every week. They wanted week on week off with the kids staying with his new wife or parents mon-fri as his childcare. Argued it was fine, his ex wife used childcare on those days too. He was told absolutely not, ex wife was available to pick them up after wrap around care and spend evening and night with them and do morning and drop off. So ex wife got priority but his parents could offer to be childcare over the daytime if they wanted to, but she didn't have to agree to it.

So I guess how often do you think it will happen?

There really shouldn’t be a problem arriving at the 50:50 co parenting arrangement given what you have said. The issue you have is in deescalating the tension over your mother’s involvement. This can be done in mediation. Where you can play your part by showing a willingness to listen to and acknowledge his concerns over your mother and your plan to live with her. As galling as that might sound it could give you the win win you need.

It is very easy for you to acknowledge that disparaging a child’s parent is wrong and that it should be prohibited in your child arrangement order. The fact that this extends to him is the win for you.

When it comes to childcare again listen and acknowledge that to the concern that the children are better off spending time with their parent. However you both need to use some form of childcare and you both have to accept that. There is a win win financially if you can organise time splits around work to minimise the need for childcare. I think it is reasonable for both of you to not want the children to be spending long periods of time on a regular basis in the care of someone other than a parent. Equally whilst he is hypersensitive to the idea you are asking your mother to cover for you now it won’t always be the case.

From experience the first refusal asks can become a bit of a nuisance. And can cause tension. Believe me when I say you will both want boundaries in the amount of time you can call on each other to cover for you. Some people decide to rigidly enforce the agreement and not flex it at all. Others build in some flexibility.

However if you are currently cohabiting then it seems reasonable to check if he can cover for you before you ask your mother. Given he and she don’t get along and he probably doesn’t want her in his life or home. There’s no gain for you in making him escalate whilst you are trying to come to agreement.

or ask his mum to cover one day a week in the holidays etc.

Hang on OP! Why can he use wrap around care and HIS mother but you cannot access any outside help at all, not even your own mum? I think you are so used to bending to his controlling ways that you don't see these little discrepancies.

And he is not a good dad so please stop thinking that. A good dad puts their children's welfare and happiness before anything and he isn't. He is using them to beat you with.

He is a bad husband, a horrible dad, and an emotionally abusive, manipulative, controlling man. There is absolutely nothing good about him.

A court is going to laugh at someone who thinks it's ok for him to use wrap around and his mum, but reckons you're not allowed to use your family.

They'll see that for the controlling behaviour it is.

I'd be encouraging him to put that in writing so his unreasonableness is documented