Relocating in UK changing schools

[Sarahd3342]

Hi

Could anyone give advice as to what a likely court judgement would be regarding relocating with a child if the father said no?

I have our child in the school week and he has him for 1/2 dinner visits and also every other weekend Fri-Mon and also part of the holidays. Neither of us have family in the area we currently live in so I would like to be closer to family/support network. The separation is only a few months. He works from home so doesn't actually have any ties to the local area either - we moved to the area together. I know he will say no to the move so it will have to go through the courts. The bits that would have to change would probably be replacing the mid week tea with regular face time calls and every other weekend would be fri-sun rather than Monday. Holidays could stay the same. How unreasonable is this? Child is only 5. How likely would a court say to agreeing to this? With my profession I can get a job anywhere but I might not need to start off with.

When I asked about relocating my solicitor advised that courts can be pretty strict and it's more and more likely now that relocation will be stopped if it goes to court. I don't think swapping out the dinner times with FaceTime especially is going to be reasonable to a court.

My solicitor said they had just had a client who had asked to relocate only an hour or so down the road to be closer to family and support - the mother didn't know anyone where she currently lived - it was refused

How far did you want to move? You'd be expected to do all the travelling to facilitate contact? How would you manage that?

In this situation I think the court would say no.

I asked my ex (no family in the area) if I could relocate and he didn’t respond. He had a house and job locally as did I and we both had no family locally.
I asked by letter formally and then via a solicitor he didn’t reply or to the next two letters, which a solicitor also sent. So I put my house on the market, applied and got a new job and got them into a school to start them in 14 days and they lived with family for the start of the relocation (difficult as you can’t apply for new school until you had an address in the local area etc ). The letters, applying and marketing the house took place over 4 months and he didn’t respond at all in that time. Not even to say ‘no’. Fortunately my solicitor had the sense to file a change in the court order etc with all the correspondence etc and details about the ex who hadn’t seen them for 4 months at that point because he hadn’t shown any interest, about 6 weeks before the planned move.

My solicitor said even at that point house of market, I had resigned etc that we ran the risk of a court saying no. I offered two face time calls a week and 5 weeks or more of holiday with him.

The judge was on my side only because he just hadn’t responded to the legal letters up until 4 months after I asked him to move etc it still was very stressful and involved two court hearings. I had emails to him asking him for an answer as I had another job offer and needed to resign etc and in over 6 weeks he didn’t reply. He only responded when he got the legal documents for court order change. It cost me over £10,000 with solicitors and barristers etc

In your case, I doubt it. He is having contact and is settled and you do not have a new job - in my case I got a promotion and the children went from inadequate to outstanding schools and an hour commute to 5 minutes etc etc
My solicitor said ‘basically the court will say no to any relocation’ that is what you assume.

Why should he agree with less contact and be forced into a potential move or less contact because you want family support? You could get that over the phone.

Better arguments with your ex are retired parents doing the school run - but you ex is working from home he might be able to, or you. Do you work full time? He might go for it if you offer more contact in the holidays? I wouldn’t if the situation were reversed.

You could ask him if he would be willing to move near your family and get some family support and have 50/50?

I am assuming unlike mine, yours is having a good relationship with the child etc

Also how far we talking? I wanted to move hundreds of miles. 30 miles a court would agree I think - out of county I would go with highly unlikely. Same for changing their schools.

For me a big factor was local secondary was inadequate and new one was outstanding. Judge was interested in that too and the short commute for me to work, the family etc At that point my ex has contact Friday to Monday from school EOW but hadn’t taken that offer for 4 months. He only recommenced contact once he had my application to the court to move.

Try to ask your ex what might work? If he says no it’s a no.

Not ethical but one of my children’s friends mums was having problems in her marriage and wanted to relocate and knew he wouldn’t agree, but he liked her home area and parents and wanted to work on the marriage so they sold up and moved on the basis they would do all the school runs etc and they would work on their marriage etc. she admits she had no intention of this. They moved and got the boys into the local outstanding primary and then she said she wanted a divorce. I don’t agree with what she did. Be upfront in my mind.

Try to find a solution with him.

Ahh thank you for your replies. The move would be 2 hours away. That's annoying it looks doubtful.

It's just where we are I feel like we are all isolated. I would like the idea of my little one being brought up around family and having a sense of community and belonging with family around. That's become far more clear now we have separated. I can get support on the phone but it's his overall upbringing I'm keen to change.

With regards to work I don't have a job lined up, finances could even permit me to not have one lined up straight away and I could do all the school runs. My ex would definitely say no and say he could do them all as he has flexible working but the reality is he wouldn't cope doing it all but wouldn't admit it. He doesn't quite get things and has been on a parenting course and we are working towards eow, tea and some holidays. He actually wanted 50/50 but CAfCASS were against this however we do have a final hearing in a few months. It's not ideal. I can't suddenly turn round and say "actually I want to relocate but it will take time with selling the marital house, getting the divorce etc finalized".

With regards to the mum and being unethical and relocating. Brutal but she did manage it and well thought through on her part. Part of me wonders whether to just buy the property and go.

Maintaining a strong relationship with his dad where his dad is local overrides these.

even more so as child grows and wants to do clubs etc which will mean after school/weekends and won’t want to miss every other weekend. Again, when teen will want the ability to hang out with friends rather than forced to be at a parents every other weekend or holidays.

and you are totally selfish to just buy and go. Absolutely not fair to your ex or child. So you think it’s ok for him to do the same and just take your child away 2 hours and you see him when he says? Thought not. Then it’s not ok for you.

and when you say he doesn’t get it , what you mean is he doesn’t do it your way, right?

If I was your ex I’d absolutely fight you through courts to stop you taking my child away. None of these family /community issues mattered to you while you were together. You can make community where you are. You are thinking only of yourself

My friend went to court and her reasoning for moving was to be near family. 3 kids 2 different fathers.

She did her research, schools, clubs, doctors, dentist, showed how the childrens lives would be the same or better on each level.
Dad of the 2 had them 50/50 he now gets FaceTime calls, most holidays and half the summer holidays.

Most of the holidays he hasn’t bothered wit, says he loses work when he has to look after them, what like the mother who has to pay childcare?
He goes away on holidays and doesn’t take them.

You may find your ex gets less interested and won’t go against the move.

@Silvertulips thank you, that's helpful. Yes, I will do my research, I've already been looking and seeing how little one's life could be matched/enriched.

@millymollymoomoo thanks seems a bit harsh. Situation is different, I'm a single parent now and would like the emotional/practical support of family. The divorce is isolating. Thought I had support around me but it's fizzling out, only my family are really there. I don't think the move would have too damaging an impact on the relationship with dad either...he would still have eow and lots of the school holidays. But yes, I expect a fight through the courts on my hands.

Well you’re not a single parent in that you still have dad around who is wanting 50:50, whether you agree or not, and your child deserves to remain close to his dad.

eow when 2 hours away, significantly impacts a child’s life, ability to be on a sports team, go to friends birthday parties etc and causes them to miss out on things they should be able to do. And of course changes the dynamic of any relationship with other parent.

just because you want to move. It’s selfish

@millymollymoomoo ahh yes I didn't think of the things like sports teams, birthday parties etc that's a good point. I thought more about the upbringing with family around. I would just have to hope that, considering his job, he would consider moving too as he doesn't have an office to go into. But I think he would say no to obstruct anyway. He would actually be closer to his own family but I still think he would say no.

You say you want your child to be raised as part of a family but you are taking him away from 50% of his primary family. There is a million miles between seeing dad once or twice a week for dinner and going to dad EOW from Friday to Monday and going to dad EOW over 2 hours away from late Friday night (after a long car journey) to Sunday night (with another tiring long car journey).

Right now dad is part of his day to day life. He has met his teacher. He gets to hear about being a library monitor and how Olivia P dropped yoghurt all over the floor.

And then as he gets older he won’t be able to join a decent football team or be in the orchestra or accept the place offered in the top gymnastics squad. I say this as someone whose teenager is a National Champion at her sport. We had no idea when she was 5 that she was even sporty let alone something special. Your son won’t get to be something special because even if he has talent then you will have to turn down the opportunity to nurture it.

I can see how the move will make your life better - probably much better - but it will make your son’s life worse. You need to be ok with that if you are going to make the move.

Is this really a happy ever after story? To me this sounds like a cautionary tale about why you shouldn’t take kids away from their (very involved) father even if the courts let you.

How incredibly sad for the children.

@Mumofteenandtween thank you, that's helpful, I didn't actually see it that way. But equally...if my ex doesn't want to move (it's not as if he has a support network in our current area either) surely he would also be to blame...he would be restricting our child from those things and preventing him from being brought up with wider family around. There is honestly no reason for him to not move too. He lives in rented, waiting for finances to be decided as to what will happen to the family home etc (likely sold...I don't want it).

As a single parent of 7 years who is staying in the town where my kids grow up I understand it's isolating. I have no family here, my new partner lives miles away.
However is it the best thing for my kids in order for them to see their dad, his family and for them to build up their own social life.
My kids needs come first, end of.

@watchuswreckthemic yes and I think if our child has the wider family of my ex's around that would make things different but it's the fact that it's literally just me, him, dad in the area and I would like him to feel he belongs to a family more.

Given that he could work from anywhere, is there any chance you could use a mediation service to negotiate a mutually agreeable plan where you both agree to relocate in a way that will be beneficial for your child? If you can emphasise that the move will facilitate access to better schools and a wider level of community and it's all about the best interests of the child rather than making your life easier, then he may agree?

The best option all around it to be able to have an open and frank conversation with him about the future, your preference to relocate and that you want him in their lives to the point of 50/50, suggesting you both relocate to where your family is and that you will facilitate him to have more contact than currently is far more likely to get the result you want than trying to use the courts that are likely to say no unless there's mitigating circumstances like him not being allowed overnights

@Sarahd3342 I do get that, I'm watching your thread with interest to see how others have made it work. Like I said I do get the isolation and appreciate it's hard.

Well - yes - maybe. Although it is a lot to ask of a person to move somewhere where the only people he knows are his ex and his ex’s family.

But would “it’s his fault too” make you feel better about having made your son’s life less happy?

@Mumofteenandtween yes, that is the problem. It is a huge ask to encourage someone to move to where only their ex and ex's family live...and child. But I would disagree that our child's life would be less happy. I would say it would be more enriched if we move.

I think that you are underestimating the value of a close day-to-day relationship with their father.

Have a think about the impact on your child.

His parents splitting is a huge thing for a child, moving him away from his school, friends and his home can have a huge impact.

There are other ways to involve family, could you go for weekends to your parents / family?

Can you plan to move later? Maybe for DS's secondary education?

Thank you.

There is also the other factor that it is way cheaper near where my family are. The divorce is pricing me out of the area.

Why should he have to move? What then in 3 when you want to move again he need to just uproot. This is all about you not your child

there is no basis here to move. Hopefully he can and will get a pso to stop you.

The needs of the child are the important thing. Developmentally they need their parents around. A wider family is desirable especially if they have featured in their lives from an early age. A strong parental relationship is fundamental to wellbeing. As is cooperative parents who aren’t at war over access and travel. The distance will create a barrier to the relationship between child and parent.

The 2 hour trip there and back is exhausting for young children. It is also expensive, you will have to pay. As children get older it creates unnecessary stress and anxiety about their wish to see their parent and to also attend clubs and parties.

If he cannot be persuaded to say yes then you will need to establish this is the best option for your child. You have not given a relevant reason yet for either the father or a court. When it comes down to it, you want to move because of your need to be near your family. Your child isn’t you. Their family nexus isn’t yours. It includes their father. One of your roles as a parent is to facilitate that relationship. The court won’t be persuaded that your desire to be close to your family trumps the child’s need to be close to their father.

IMO, if you try to use the why can’t he move challenge he will shut all of this down. It is a high handed and entitled expectation. And it’s spurious.

If this is something you want then approach it properly. Ask him how he feels about the area you live in and if he is tied to the location. If he isn’t, ask him whether he would prefer to relocate elsewhere or what options he would consider. Be open that you would like to move closer to family but also show willingness to compromise and give him some control.

You need to own the decision to live where you are now and to start a family there with him. It has consequences that are not easy to untangle. Your child shouldn’t bear the weight of the consequences if you up and move.

@LemonTT thank you, that's really helpful. You have put it across in a really good way.

@LemonTT the reasons I have

• family support for my child - unwavering support and will always be available to help with school pick ups, not that I would need them(!) but also on a ad hoc basis.
• growing up with a community and more positive relationship with wider family and sense of belonging
• financial and lifestyle - much more affordable area, better house etc
• schools. I already have our child in a highly regarded school but there are plenty in the area I would like to move so I would obviously have to coincide it with when there are spaces
• Drs, dentists etc - I can ensure all signed up to
• clubs and activities - I have looked; there are clubs like football and swimming lessons my child can join up to
• contact with dad; I would really hope to maintain as similar contact arrangements as possible with eow and potentially offer more of the holidays (he already has nearly half) to compensate any midweek loss of time.
• employment - due to the price of houses I would not need to work straight away and ensure my child is settled in the new school and area but there are numerous jobs available in my field
• I do actually think if I actually upped and moved my ex would leave the area we are in too as he has no support network and is just here for our child. Where he would move to I don't know.