Non-mol vexatious emails??

[Buscake]

Non-mol in place for a year, has been in force for a week. There is extensive CS involvement and a lot of DV input. He has written via solicitors that his MH is better (after one week! He’s bipolar and manic) and that he wants to see kids on Christmas Eve.

I will say no. This will be supported by CS. But is this a taste of what is to come? There is nothing in non-mol that states he can ask this but his solicitor says it allows for direct contact provided it is agreed between the parties. This isn’t in the order. They put it in their covering letter but it’s not in the order. What can I do about this? it feels vexatious to be asking this after only a week. Kids are aged 14-10, two disabled, two have sustained injuries from him, all have been subjected to and exposed to DV from him. His letter only mentions the MH concerns. Any advice v gratefully received please

My understanding of a non mol for dv is no direct Or indirect intact (ie getting someone to contact you on their behalf) but it's a while since mine ran out so I could be wrong.

In any event, refuse and tell Socisl services and the police.

Mine states this:
He must not telephone, text, email or otherwise contact or
attempt to contact the children of the family except for such contact as may be agreed in writing via solicitors
or in default of agreement ordered by the court.

And this

The respondent may apply to the court at any time to vary or discharge this order on 7 days written
notice to the applicant’s solicitors. If any evidence is to be relied upon in support of his application, the
substance of it must be communicated in writing to the applicant’s solicitors in advance.

to me, this reads that he cannot write to make this request but could petition the court to vary the order. Is that right? Yes I have a solicitor who I can ask, but the costs are mounting and mounting and she will want a clear answer about what to say back.

feeling very anxious and low about all of this, and not safe at all. Have been referred to marac due to high level of concern around DV will this come into play or not because it’s me not the children?

So the non mol is in relation to the children, not you? Is that right? And he's asking his solicitor to ask you to see the children when the non mol clearly states he is to have no contact with them? Have I read that right (sorry I'm not a legal expert, just trying to understand the parameters of the non mol and offer a sympathetic ear as I know how stressful this can be)

Not had a non-mol but am ready to get one once our current court situation finishes (which he is dragging on and then I suspect will be back to his harassing messages and doorstepping).

From my experience keep everything and contact police and anyone else to keep a record of behaviour. I was so traumatised I couldn't bring myself to go through the hundreds of emails and thousands of texts to put into the Court paperwork - it would have made a book - so I just added a few more recent ones to keep my stress low (was in hospital for stress related illness). It is very depressing that the Court enables men with these issues (ex also has bi polar, ADHD and narcassism diagnosed and is unmedicated) and although I can see they have to give them a fair hearing, it does feel counter intuitive to put them in a position they can vicariously hurt their family while costing the taxpayer thousands and can ultimately plead they were not in their right mind if it all goes wrong, which invariably it does. I really think there needs to be a threashold for sanity before the Courts hear family cases, with a current medical MH certification required if they are requesting contact.

The non mol is against me and the children. He has asked to see them next week. My view is that this request and contact is a breach, the order has only been in place a week! I can’t get a moment respite from it all.

so his solicitor emailed my solicitor this request. Is this allowed? Or should he be petitioning the court to allow this variation? Thank you for replying and sorry if it’s not making sense. It means so much that you are replying - I am so totally at sea with all of this

I’m really sorry to hear what you are going through. There are certainly a lot of similarities - my ex has bipolar and ASC but he is also a narcissist according to all the professionals (I think I am still in the fog of awakening to this). I am logging everything, I think the social worker is sick to death of my emails.

wish I had some practical DV support in place. All the referrals seem to be very slow and I would have thought being high risk would elicit a more serious response but it doesn’t seem to mean anything. Feeling very exposed and alone 😞

Right op yes I agree the non mol is a breach. He's indirectly contacting you via his solicitor which is a breach. Contact the police. Tell them he's breached the non mol and let them deal with it. Then inform social services so you can get their support. That's what I had to do and the police took it seriously and prosecuted him

This might be helpful for some advice www.thedaisychainproject.com/#:~:text=The%20Daisy%20Chain%20Project%20is,childrens'%20book%20about%20domestic%20abuse.

And this is who helped me-they may be able to clarify your position better than me! www.ncdv.org.uk

Thank you. I appreciate this a lot!

police have said he’s not breaching it because it’s all via solicitors. I said can I just expect this level of contact on an ongoing basis, they just passed the buck to solicitors

Do have a word with women's aid, as well as the links I've given. Ime the police are WOEFUL at this stuff, and will happily avoid pushing for a prosecution if they can avoid it. I'm not a lawyer, but women's aid and the links I posted will have vast experience and will be able to give you clear advice as to what to do. It took several attempts to get the police to take me seriously and they did eventually but it took persistence. Don't be fobbed off.

From a specialist solicitor: www.reeds.co.uk/personal-law/breaching-non-molestation-orders/

Even if the breach has come via a solicitor or disguised as 'Contact arrangements with child/children are used to instigate offence'. Using a solicitor is not an automatic defence. Police are very very lazy with this.

This is really helpful thank you. I think my best bet is going to be a strongly worded solicitors letter. It’s just made me feel so very unsafe esp with Christmas next week - he’s so irrational and unstable I really do not know what to expect, I don’t know him at all any longer. Appreciate your support and knowledge so much, thank you

I really feel for you op. I just hope there's some support in the info I've given. You and your kids deserve to feel safe. Do NOT hesitate to report every single occasion you feel he breaches the order to the police. Ime you have to chip away and chip away until they take notice. Be persistent. You and your children deserve to feel safe and police are often reluctant to act because cps will often say it doesn't reach the threshold for prosecution. It's a numbers game. Really wishing you the best of luck op. I had a very similar situation 6 years ago to the day and know how unsettling it can be at this time of year. Sending massive hugs 🤗

I appreciate this so much. I realise how isolated I have become due to this abusive marriage and it’s hard to speak to people about it. Some are amazing, and some don’t seem to get it.

feeling v low today looking back at messages - he has been abusive about my weight for year. I’m size 18, was size 16 when we married 16yrs ago and before 3 children. I know I’m overweight, I know my body has changed, but I’m ok with that. Would be lovely to have the time and space to make changes and maybe now I can do that? His body has changed, he is now size large and I have never made a single disparaging comment about that 😔 Justcfeel humiliated thinking about what’s he’s telling people - that I’m too fat and we never had sex. The truth is that we always had sex! Including the day that the marriage ended. It just wasn’t enough or good enough or something for him. always a reason to get me down. And these mind games are continuing, only it’s me doing it to myself reliving what he has said before :(

Oh @Buscake it will take a while to recover from all of this. Honestly I'm 6/7 years out of my abusive relationship and feel like only now has my trauma response calmed down enough to the point I don't think everyone and everything is out to get me. It's tough I know but you can heal and recover. Your self esteem will return and you will find time for yourself again. Wishing you the very best op. I hope Christmas is peaceful x

I wonder if given the existence of the order his solicitors could be guilty of breaching the order?

perhaps a complaint against them might be an option

If he's asked his solicitor to email you then this isn't a breach. Just respond to his legal saying no.

He must not telephone, text, email or otherwise contact or
attempt to contact the children of the family except for such contact as may be agreed in writing via solicitors
or in default of agreement ordered by the court.*

Clearly says that contact will be via solicitor. If you're in proceedings for your children then get your legal to address thid

There is no requirement for you to reply to a Solicitor.

You could simply acknowledge receipt and say that you will not be responding