Changing contact days/swaps - issues with difficult ex

[LambChopsMcGee]

Hi all,

I hope it's ok to post here. I am having some issues with my daughter's dad. I will try and be brief but there's a lot going on...

Basically he moved out 2 years ago. Our relationship broke down more like 7 years ago and we've been not really together since 5 years ago, but the split was slowed by covid and also him fully refusing to accept things were over. Like he refused to speak about one of us moving, refused to speak to the bank about our shared mortgage, threatened me that he would take my daughter away (she is now 8). So it was a v stressful breakup.

We have coparented really well though. He lives just over the road and kid goes back and forth daily. This is unusual but she asked for that schedule when he first went and we wanted her to be happy, so we agreed, while saying it would need to be flexible. We also have dinner together once a week (or did till this kicked off), the three of us, and spend birthdays and Christmas together.

It's all gone fine and we have been swapping the odd week around and things over holidays, either to take her away or for one of us to travel. I admit I travel a lot more, just for fun, and I have taken maybe 10 long weekends in the past year. This was fine and she was happy and so was he.

Then he found out I was seeing someone, casually really, and flipped out. This person is not someone I was going to introduce to the family yet, I wanted to wait and see if it might go somewhere. He lives in another city though so I travel to see him or he comes here, and kid will stay with her dad - which has been fine.

Apparently it is no longer fine and I got so many emails (some 3000w long) and texts filling whole screens on my phone (including personal abuse) over the past 7 weeks. He says I am not allowed to swap days anymore and he will give me a maximum number of requests per year.

I spoke to the police and they said his communication does cross the legal threshold for harassment.

I wanted to move to weekly swaps as I became kind of aware he's exerting a lot of control through this, but also to reduce the changes to our kid's routine. He refuses this and wants to go to mediation or court (we are in the UK).

I am not sure what to do. I am happy with daily and kid prefers it, but dealing with him daily and him having this... say over my time is stressful. I do see that what I do affects him (in terms of swapping his plans). We always make up the days so she is with us 50/50. I'm not sure whether to push for weekly when kid doesn't really want that, or to kind of accept this for a while.

I am not making these changes just for the guy I am seeing, it's more that this has made me realise that in a way I never actually escaped the relationship and the control.
I don't think an 8 year old should be calling the shots, either, but obviously what she wants matters.

I'm sorry if I didn't explain this well. Any advice welcome.

Get a court order for whatever arrangement works long term. There’s no guarantee you’ll continue to live opposite one another.

Maybe you're right and I've been too optimistic. We kind of committed to staying living here for her sake, and while we were getting on well it all seemed fine to leave it like that.

She'll be upset if I ask to change to weekly though (he is currently refusing flat out). But I need to feel I am more in control.

So do 4 days and 3 days?

He sounds scary. Living over the road? He must be liking this arrangement either to keep an eye on you or in some obsessive hope you'll get back together.

He sounds like, as long as things are going the way he wants, he will be really nice to co parent with. Now you'll see psycho tits.

I would prefer some physical distance. Hope it doesn't interfere with you having some enjoyment for yourselves with a new partner

I'd be ok with that - I have suggested all the different things - 2/2/3, 2/2/5/5 etc that I have seen online. He insists on daily cos she wants it - but I really think it's more about stopping me moving on. That might sound paranoid but it's built on a lot of experience.

The problem being SHE really likes daily. I do think she'll understand in time but she will be upset, and he is already sending all these messages about how I'm hurting her, not putting her first, putting some random before her (I'm not, I really don't think I am).

How about 2-2-5-5?
So you both have set weeknights
Say for you it’s Mondays and Tuesdays and he has Wednesdays and Thursdays. Then every other weekend Friday to Sunday you swap.
The longest you go without seeing your child is 5 days. It’s consistent and predictable and weekdays stay the same so you can choose to enroll and pay for childcare or afterschool clubs on your days independently.

Sorry, cross posted.

I actually really like this one. Logistically it might be hard to think "where will she be on X weekend in July" but otherwise. Something based on that would be nice.

Currently she sees us both every day (either morning or night) and she likes that. Of course I like seeing her as well, but it's kind of the reality of the situation that things have to change.

Could you try and just change weekends from daily to alternating 2-3 nights with each of you? That way your DD gets to mostly keep the routine she wants, but you also get to have a life...which as you say seems primarily the reason your Ex doesn't want anything to change.

I try not to change anything with my abusive ex so as not to give him any ammunition to complain (he does anyway), so whether you have to go through court to get the changes made, or are able to do it between you, once it's agreed then send him a whole year's worth of dates and stick to them and he'll have no justifiable cause to complain.

Do either or both of you have family nearish who you’d like to be able to visit at weekends overnight? That’s another child-centric reason why 2255 would be good.

You could always call his bluff and arrange mediation. The mediator is not going to accept ´I don’t want my ex dating’ as a reason for alternate days.

He does - and he takes her to his home town a few times a year and we just swap the days. I'm from another country and I took her home for 3 weeks this summer (which he was fine with - it's a rare thing and we'd not been since before Covid).

It's so far been really casual and friendly - no big deal for him to take her away for a weekend or a week in summer, and fine for me to say "I'll be away 4 nights in October, if that's ok?".

I guess I just feel sad that that has been shattered - he cancelled the family dinners and said I am not allowed in his house. He's been saying to her that he wants family dinners to start again, so seemingly he thinks everything is up to him and I will just agree to that. She was v sad when he cancelled the dinners as she likes things with the three of us, so that was more hurtful to her than anything I did, I think.

oh well.

Ha, I just saw this.

The kid wants this system and it has been working.. but as others have said she really shouldn't be making all the decisions. We've failed her in that so far I fear.

I want my 50% of time that is not with her to be my own, I guess. I am not trying to reduce it.

I do feel really sad this has happened. We were doing really well and getting on as friends but then it went to nasty texts and saying I was not who I thought he was, and that I wasn't putting my daughter first. I think I just feel so sad about it.

Daily during the week but alternate weekends like a PP mentioned might be a good compromise.
Friday - Sunday (nights) mum
mon - dad
tue - mum
wed - dad
thur - mum
Friday - Sunday dad
Mon - mum
Tue - dad
Wed - mum
Thur - dad
5 days a week she'd see both of you but she also get a block of time with each parent and you can do things with her like a long weekend away without anyone needing to change nights. This gives her a more solid and stable routine with less changes that she has to cope with.

You usually need to attempt mediation before going to court. It should be about DDs best interests, which doesn't necessarily mean doing what she wants. The alternate days might be best for her, or they might not. I can see arguments for longer time periods especially on weekends and school holidays. If he won't discuss and actually consider alternatives then I'd organise mediation. Sometimes its better to formalise arrangements and then stick to them. If you do decide to go to mediation and court if necessary to formalise things Id think of what you want for other time periods like school holidays and special occasions too. You might also want to discuss things like choosing a high school, what happens when she/a parent is sick, if you want to both have first refusal of child care if other parent needs to use childcare, who pays for school holiday care and so on.

There are 2 separate issues. The first is getting the right routine for the child. This needs mediation and a court order. Because your informal arrangement isn’t working and you arguing in a toxic way. Once it is in place you should both just honour it. The arrangement should be based on the child’s needs and facilitate you both being able to work and then have some time of your own.

The second issue is the lack of boundaries. You can live nearby, have discussions about your child but you shouldn’t be trying to dictate how the other lives or who they see. However your child arrangements shouldn’t be based on the needs of new boyfriends or girlfriends.

Since you have said yourself you don’t your child finding out you are seeing someone I will comment on this. If your ex knows then she knows. You might not have introduced him to her but it is known. And your new drive to change what she likes will be linked to that knowledge. This is a problem for you. Because she will think you are putting a boyfriend first.

You need to talk to your daughter and explain you and dad are split up. That that means she won’t t see both daily. And explain that it’s going to change. Tell her that you’re trying to figure out the best schedule for all, acknowledging her wishes for frequent visits and both parents but state that it’s not working and will change.

ultimately you’re not really separated and not acting like it and as you’re now finding out this is not healthy co parenting at all. It’s control and to keep you tied.

Sorry I was unclear here: she knows and I've spoken to her about it. She's fine with it and says she knows I'm not putting him first (though I'm not sure really how she feels).

He's just sent through a proposal that we do daily but can swap for 2-3 nights six times a year. That seems far too controlled to me so I guess I'll think what I need and then it'll be mediation

I would just suggest that you get a neutral mediator to help you sort out your arrangements. He is clearly unhappy about your new relationship.

Nope, he's still trying to control everything, whilst appearing to be compromising...

you need to stop framing this in terms of your exes views. And get some ground rules and boundaries over your communications with him.

However I do think you are not seeing this from your daughter’s perspective. She doesn’t understand any of this and she shouldn’t need to. In fact this should be even be something she is aware of until it is settled. She knows about the new boyfriend, she knows her dad isn’t happy and she now knows things need to change. Once they do change she will draw child framed conclusions.

I accept the boyfriend isn’t the reason to change what is a fairly untenable arrangement. He is just the catalyst. But the timing is terrible to address something you and your ex should have sorted out when you split. You both agreed to this and now you put it right.

This is a difficult situation for the child and that is something you and your ex created and now need to sort out. Mediation, lawyer and child arrangement order. Then some realistic but needed boundaries.

Thanks yeah I appreciate that and I appreciate the perspective, as I have definitely fallen into something of a "he's controlling me! I should be able to do whatever I want!" mindset.

You are right we should have gone through this when we split. We weren't married, but yeah, when he moved out he was so angry (he didn't want to allow the split and he blocked it for literally years, and then threatened to sue for the deposit I paid for the flat, even though we agreed we would keep our respective equity when we went into it - luckily a lawyer agreed).

I guess I am trying to think what I should ask for at mediation - either what I want as an ideal outcome, but also what I should ask for knowing we will end up with something inbetween.

I don't want DD to feel bad about any of it. The fact was she was seemingly fine with changing the contact days when I travelled. I would go see other friends as well, and we would then make up the days when I was back. She knew I had a new friend and I went to see him and he came to see me. I didn't want to tell her it was more than that until such time as I thought they might meet and it might become more serious. It was ex who "figured out" I was seeing someone (he says cos he walked past my place and saw I had the curtains shut during the day.. he then spiraled into crazy messages - eg: I was "dumping the mental load on him so some random could dump his load on me"

It's been hard to keep a perspective. Which I guess is what mediation is for, but I appreciate the MN view in helping me know what to go into mediation looking for.

I definitely want to centre my daughter, and I have spoken to her about it. Her dad seems to have set the narrative with her though to some degree. Of course she has her own views but her initial pretty relaxed take has morphed into her saying things that are basically verbatim his arguments.

I have an update which is that I wrote out a clear rationale for moving to the 2,2,5 system (if people are familiar). I am really hoping he agrees to this as his proposal (dailies, and if I want any changes I can have a maximum of 6 x 2-3 night changes per year..) felt very controlling.

With 2 2 5 I can commit to no changes (except planned summer holiday trips with DD for each of us) and get more time in a row with her. I feel daily is too chaotic in a way. She likes it but she is 8 and whenever she is here a few days we get into a good rhythm together.

I am really hoping he agrees and we can avoid paying for mediation or even court, but he said he wants to talk to her about it without me and I am sure he will come back saying she doesn't want it or that she says I nagged her about it.

Feeling very anxious but determined to be strong and not sign up to his rules.