Dad Trying to find a path to peace with Ex

[ToughToWorkThrough]

A very brief overview. We have 2 DC. Caught her in an affair in Jan. I asked her to leave but she couldn't/wouldn't with no family nearby. I tried sticking it out at home, but I just could not handle it for my own mental health. I had a major health issue crop up that required essentially life saving/altering surgery. So trying to deal with all if it at home became too much.
I left to stay with family. Have my DCs every second weekend and helping on holidays. Drive up to take them out and see them during the week. Go to school things etc.... Have helped her get UC payments sorted out, purposely changed the child benefit to her name as I am a higher earner anyway. Worked out the CMS payments and started paying her around 700 per month. Left her in the Family Home while it gets sold.

So we are at an impasse right now.
She earns about 32k. I earn about 72k. My health concern puts my career at risk due to stress, but if it goes south again it will almost certainly mean me having to step way back on the stress levels, and income levels.

The mediator has asked her to put a budget together. And she is just not being realistic with this budget. I am trying to explain to her that needs are one thing. And having a reasonable budget for luxuries is another. but budgeting in luxuries is not how this works.

I wont go into detail on all of the things she is trying to justify in her budget, but it is basically a lot closer to a spouse budget, than it is to a single mom budget. Imagine still wanting all of the creature comforts and lifestyle things that she may have gotten used to. Especially frustrating when many of them are things she only started to introduce and get used to once the affair had started. But I digress.

My take on a budget is this:
Split family assets to allow for both of us to purchase similar houses to have the kids 50/50. This results in a skewed spread to her.
Then when assessing her needs, we take Housing, Utilities, Groceries, Fuel, Clothing, medicines, emergency saving fund into account.
Anything over and above this, ie: Makeup, beauty creams, beauty treatments, nails, dying hair, nights out, alcohol, gifts, events, etc....
Should get put into a disposable income bucket. Essentially. After base needs are met, having a reasonable pot of disposable income to decide on which lifestyle things are most important.

Now I dont know what a reasonable budget might be. I am thinking £200 to cover makeup, beauty, self dying hair and some social activities? What would the consensus be here.

I would like to point out that she lists all of these things as "non-negotiables" and then points out that she does not have enough money to save anything in a month.
My view is that the responsible order of things is:
Housing + Living Costs
Saving for kids and for emergencies/home breakages or replacements
Basic Luxuries
Nice to have Luxuries

I really want us to be able to work together into the future, but this attitude of entitlement is making it really difficult to see how that is going to be possible. I am getting to the point where I am considering just pulling out of Mediation and saying we should fill out our forms and our wishes, and give it to a judge to decide. But I know that once CMS start getting involved with those payments, we wont have the same luxury of working it all out together. So closing that door is a hard line that I really want to avoid.

Am I being misinformed about how the divorce courts see this?

My ideal path is to give her the current CM payments so that she can get the mortgage she needs. Then when we go 50/50. Reduce those CM payments to something that allows her to live within that reasonable budget of luxuries, while she still gets UC because these CM payments would essentially be a way to bypass the Spousal maintenance which would remove her UC entitlement.

This is the win win scenario for both of us. But it requires her to accept that her lifestyle needs to change. She has to earn her own increased lifestyle now.

So I am asking:
A) Am I being unreasonable
B) Am I being misinformed about what she should get out of this split
C) If push came to shove and I had to go to the courts to decide. Do you think it would lean closer to my stance or closer to hers?

What are you asking ?

* I am thinking £200 to cover makeup, beauty, self dying hair and some social activities?*

Is this your question?

either way… we can’t answer that

What is your solicitor suggesting?

oh you have edited to add questions

what does your solicitor say?

But I know that once CMS start getting involved with those payments, we wont have the same luxury of working it all out together.

an interesting take on CMS given clearly this is far from amicable

She’s got no hope of touching your salary for spousal as 72k is not significant

I guess it’s pensions and the equity in the property up for discussion

How much equity is in the home? And what is the overall value? How much does she need to secure a mortgage of her own? With a lower income then it’s poss she will need a higher deposit

Dont argue about maintenance now - that will go on the number of nights you have the kids and does not necessarily need to be hashed out now BUT Tell her that 700 a month from your salary is the same as you losing 15% already of your income making you only marginally better off than her once she gets all of her benefits!

Or tell her if it goes to court you are both going to hand over a chunk of your house equity to lawyers

and she won’t get spousal, and if she is lucky will maybe get a 60/40 equity split in her favour! If the extra 10pc is worth it then tell her to crack on!

Equity in the home is around 170K. We have basically worked out that with the CM of 700 and a 60/40 split, she would be able to buy a 3 bed. And I would be left able to buy a 3 bed as well. But the lenders only agree to that affordability if she is getting 700CM. At the end of the day, she will still be fine once CM goes down, but I would really just prefer her to actually know this up front. Otherwise things start spiraling downhill.

I might just be fighting a pointless and losing battle.

Only some lenders will take csa into account not all

The issue is if you’s are going to rely on that for her mortgage application each time she changes lender/mortgage rate she will have to show that you have been paying her the £700

What is her issue the £700 cm?

believe me if you add everything up that she is going to get in universal credit/child benefit plus maintenance you will probably find out she gets the same if not more than you after tax and deductions

It is going to be hard for both of you on your one salary each.

I think she has been reading too much press where they talk about high profile divorces involving millions of pounds!

As she works theres clearly not been damage to her career - and in fact you are the one who is going to be financially worse off!

I'm confused about why you are negotiating her income needs in mediation. You don't make enough for spousal maintenance. As you say you both just need enough to house yourselves. Taking the CMS payments into account as her income is unusual so she needs to be able to afford a mortgage on her personal salary plus a large deposit.

Is there a large pension pot in the negotiations? Could you give her all the house equity in exchange for example?

Your income difference is large but not enormous so I don't see her getting more then 60-65% joint assets. Does she argue this isn't enough? Well tough tities! You need to house yourself too. You aren't entitled to buy 3 bed houses if you can't afford it.

It sounds like you are being

Tbh I would take it to court. Why don't you both represent yourselves instead of using lawyers?

her monthly spends, make up etc are all irrelevant.

the financial split is based on assets. If you have enough to split everything 50:50 and house yourselves this is what will be done. If you don’t, it will be skewed so one house suitable for the children is maintained, the nrp has to work with what’s left.

so add up house, pensions, savings etc and work out a split that allows provision for the children.

once that is done if you have 50:50 residency then she will have to sort her budget herself. You won’t owe any maintenance unless she has the children more of the time, then it will be based on CMS or however you want to do it.

what she spends on make up and luxuries is up to her. Nothing to do with you.

So she had the affair but still expects you to pay for her luxuries? 🙄

Wow - I don't think you're being unreasonable at all.

you should not worry just tell her if you need solicitors the money you pay them will eat into what both of you are left with in the end. Best for her to be reasonable otherwise the legal cost just escalate and money gets burned

lol my brothers ex tried to get it set as a condition of the divorce that he paid for one foreign holiday a year. Basic right apparently.

not to mention that she went with her OM on these holidays (including when she and DB were still married). Often went without the kids too 😂

then had the cheek to tell the kids it was him had the affair so now they don’t speak to him any more.

OMG @Whatamitodonow how entitled! Your poor brother!

My ExH left for the OW when the DCs were very young (the youngest was 14wks). In our marriage I was always the higher earner. I spent an inheritance on paying off his student loan (the old type), credit card, substantial overdraft and also paid £35k off the mortgage. He left, stopped paying the mortgage and when we eventually sold the house, I had to fight to get a 60/40 split of the tiny amount of equity (that didn't even cover the mortgage payment contributions he'd missed). He also tried to take the family car (that my car was put in part exchange for) despite him living with the OW in the heart of the nation's capital and me having to take three kids around and about.

I think OP is being very decent given the circumstances. She sounds like a nightmare. I hope he stands his ground and eventually meets someone who treats him better.

@fasaglo - sorry, just no. He sounds far too nice and reasonable to be treated like this. No one 'nice and reasonable' deserves to be cheated on and then have an entitled cheating partner try to make them pay for luxuries.

yanhu

shes no chance of spousal

solit house, agree % of that ( and pension). You both get mortgage to buy similar property - your needs are the same for housing

she either gets higher income or tops up with benefits. Then she’s on her own to manage her budget

let her take you to court if she won’t budge. She’s completely unreasonable ( and urealistic )

haha. Tried that. I sat her down and explained that divorce is terrible. That we wont be better off in the short term at the very least. That we are both compatible enough, we just got really really busy with life. moved area, moved jobs, moved schools, traveling for work. I said I understood what made it happen from both of our sides and I would be willing to reconcile as we have a lot more to lose. As do/did our kids.

She said, she cant help how she feels and she doesn't feel romantically about me anymore.

So yes. We went down that route. Now I get to make the most of my new found freedom, both romantically, but also as a parent.

I find that if I'm trying to negotiate with someone unreasonable in a work context I just give them an offer "capable of acceptance" and then walk away from the conversation. If they attempt to keep coming with further unreasonable demande, I simply say "my offer is on the table ready for you to accept".
Cue much huffing and puffing but if it is truly reasonable usually their legal team tell them to accept.
I'd say do the same here. Your offer is v reasonable and I'd stop discussing hair and makeup. That's the offer, end of story. Take it or take me to court

Thanks to everyone who has responded. I wont reply to each. But I appreciate the input.
I have wanted to rent a place, which requires us both to tighten up. But seeing this is not really going to happen, I think I am just going to push forward with the current situation with CM payments. Then when I have my own place. get them 50/50 and tell her CM is now gone. She might open a case with CMS. but if we are both paying 50/50 and 50/50 time spent, then CMS will not calculate any payments.

It seems that just pushing through with the Child Maint situation and property split as is. Then adjusting post divorce is the best way to actually get things to land fairly.

So she doesn't fancy you, wants a divorce but still wants you to fund her like a wife?

It sounds like she wants to have her cake and eat it.

I'd just be clear mediation is about a split of current assets, anything child related will be CMS and you will not be entertaining any spousal maintenance as you are not a billionaire.

Neither of you will have the lifestyle you were previously accustomed to but that is the consequences of her choice.

I think your approach is best

CM is separate and for now just allow that whilst you finalise split of family home

down the line take the children more but you should be aiming to do that asap rather then spring it on them as that will certainly seem like it’s to avoid paying her £700 a month

She is well aware that I want them 50/50. I have told her from the start that i am doing the current situation because it is the best for the kids and her. So I am not concerned about how it will appear later to be honest. Also, she has said to me. "I dont mind having them more because that means you have to pay me more child maintenance".

So I want them more because I want them more, and because I then dont have to fork out money that I know is not going to the kids in full anyway. She wants them more because she wants them more, and because she admits, it gives her more money to play with.

We both have the wrong and the right reasons in mind. That is divorce.

You don’t have to convince her of the argument that 60% of the equity is enough that will be something a lawyer will tell her or a judge. You have said your bit and presumably repeated it. Accept you don’t agree and you cannot convince her.

I don't think you're going to solve this in mediation. You shouldn't be covering a penny of HER expenses. You cover half the kids expenses. You split the assets fairly so you can both be rehoused and you split the costs of the kids. If she wanted you to fund her lifestyle she shouldn't have shagged about.

That is what I’m saying if you only try to take them 50% of the time later then it does look like you are doing it for financial reasons

That doesn’t really matter but what matters is she doesn’t have to hand them over to you and could take you to family court and argue why she should continue to keep them for 70% of the time - it’ll depend on her person and if she is determined to keep your maintenance

Dont underestimate the lengths people will go to. Your £700 is A lot to
lose each month!