Ex being difficult about holiday permission, help!

[whycantitbecalm]

Ok so my ex and I have been divorced for almost a year, we have 3 teens 15, 16 & 18
Two of them are choosing not to speak to him because of the way he treated them and one see's him occassionally

We went away without him last year, he signed a statement saying he gave me permission to take them away, which i checked was what i needed for the country we were travelling to.

It wasn't dated and didn't state the destination because thats not what the country asked for it to include but i told him in person.

We have been away this year, i told him we were going and that the previous permission form could be used and if he wasn't ok with this and was stopping us from going then to let me know. He said he wasn't stopping us.

He is a constant messager, needs replies to everything and is generally controlling and since the divorce i have stepped back from responding because he twists it and uses it against me or makes me feel rubbish so i don't enjoy myself. (Hence the divorce)

While we were away i read none of his messages and came back to messages from him claiming he had got legal advice on the holiday and that i needed to provide him with an itinerary and that without that signed by him that if it was classed as abduction and that if i did it again i would have given him no choice but to report it to the authorities.

He has never liked not being in control or every part of our lives, and this is the only area he can now. So i will be getting legal advice but until then......help!

Does anyone know what i do need to provide, does he need a full itinerary, because i'm really not comfortable with him having that much info on our holiday.

Is there a court order that the DC live with you?

I think telling him your departure and return date and country destination is more than enough as you are clearly primary parent especially if you are going to a country that is signed up to The Hague Convention.

If you don't have a CAO then yes you need a letter of permission from him with his contact details and detailing the holidays as per Gov.uk

www.gov.uk/permission-take-child-abroad

Sounds like you should get a CAO and use an coparenting App to stop his controlling behaviour.

Next time don't tell him? Surely your youngest will be or nearly be 16 then anyway?

Ask him to get the solicitor to put it in writing to you. I bet they've said no such thing.

@RandomMess nope no court order in place, we both have parental responsibility.

Does this permission apply until they are 18?

@AlisonDonut i know if i went without telling him he would absolutely use it against me, so thats not an option

@Cloverforever this is a brilliant idea! Call his bluff. I think once i have the legal facts from a solicitor myself i may well do that, thank you

Against you for what? Just tell him to fuck off.

It is until age 18.

I would write to him and his solicitor.

That whilst you understand that legally you need his explicit consent to take the DC abroad that as they share your name, will be over 16 and 2 currently so not wish to spend time with him due to his behaviour is he really going to impose enforcing this right and risk further alienating them when you are resident in the UK and he knows you will be returning with them.

Let him spend his money writing back from his solicitor. If he says yes then write back to his solicitor admin for his written consent to taking the ones U18 abroad between x an y date in 2025 for a maximum of 3 weeks to somewhere in Europe

🙄

Let him waste his money and look a fool.

Tbh, depending on whether you can afford it or not, I would just go to court and get permission to take them on holiday next year. The 18 year old can travel without parental consent.

Will anything really happen without his consent, given the ages of the children? I would just ignore him and go regardless and not even bother to inform him of your plans. He needs to get used to the fact that they are all almost adults and can choose themselves what they want to do and where they want to travel.

Although you do in theory need his permission to go, that doesn't extend to a full itinerary.

I can't see any action resulting from you going without his permission given the DC's ages and their relationship. Just carry on using the original letter and ignore him.

I have never had to show permission to travel with my DC though they've been asked what their relationship is to me (different names).

My 16 year old travelled alone this year to the states and didn't have a permission letter and wasn't asked for one.

Given the ages of your kids I'd not even bother with talking to him, unless there are any ongoing obligations or financials to discuss.
He can arrange his own time to see and talk with his children.

It seems that they are with you 100% of the time and you are the resident parent.

You really have no reason to inform him of your holiday plans.

I'd reply to him - please have your solicitor write an official letter that I will then review and get my own advice. Please only communicate with me on email.
And then block him on WhA and phone.

Given the age of your children - there is nothing he is going to be able to do. 16yos can travel on their own and without any parent permission. You don't need to inform him or send an itinerary.
There is no issue of abduction here. Courts don't do orders for kids of that age as after 16 kids can decide by themselves where they live. Or who they travel with. His threats are totally empty and contrilling.

Just block and call his bluff

Nothing will happen if you don't respond

So I wouldn't respond

@RandomMess "That whilst you understand that legally you need his explicit consent to take the DC abroad that as they share your name"

Pretty sure sharing a name isn't relevant....

i would have given him no choice but to report it to the authorities

Who are the "authorities"??

A court? Let him apply for a SIO to request travel details. However if you supply the dates travelling and returning and the country a court wouldn't request anymore. He will be told that my a solicitor.
Police? They won't be interested unless you don't return and are deemed a risk to the children.
Social services - ditto, at the DC ages they will ask if you have notified him of holiday dates and location.
School? I assume you are not taking them away out of term time.

There are 2 things muddled up here. The first is the requirements of the country you are going to, which you can’t get round.

The second point is what you are allowed to do. If there’s an order that the children live with you, you’re allowed to take them abroad for up to 28 days without the consent of your ex. If there’s no order that they live with you, then do what you want. The children are old enough now, anyway, to have their say.

@CurlewKate I was meaning if op and DC have the same surname the chances of anyone even raising an eyebrow are so so so remote.

Thanks everyone, he is spending a lot of time accusing me of doing things i'm not and trying to make me look unreasonable.

I don't want to give him any actual reason to be able to say to anyone "see she's breaking the law and not treating me fairly"

So if he is insisting i ask permission, i will be. But wanted an idea of the legalities

My xh refused to give permission for me to take DD, so we went anyway, multiple times. We were stopped once in a ten year period - she was about 11. They asked to see our passports, asked DD who I was, where we were going and then just told us to have a good time and waved us on. The only reason we were stopped was because she was having a strop and I was doing the hissed "Don't show me up, keep walking" thing. If anything I'd have been trying to give her away rather than abduct her at that point.

Op - was in exactly your situation and our ex husbands sound v similar! My ex flat out refused consent for 17 year old.

The 18 year old is classed as an adult so nothing needed there.

Courts don't issue SIOs for 16 and 17 year olds generally but this is at odds with the FCO advice which clearly states they need to have parental consent from both parents. You certainly don't need to provide any detail though - just what it says on the FCO website.

I went round the houses with this. Courts initially rejected my application for a SIO as above and I was told (by an off duty judge) that it wasn't needed as a holiday with the resident parent is not classed as exceptional circumstances. Still v concerned about the potential fallout from my ex who would have no hesitation in making life difficult by reporting I pushed back and pointed out the contrary FCO stance. They relented and I got a hearing granted. Needed to pay £255 for that, and have a MIAM sign off to submit £240 (purely a box tick exercise as ex ignored the request to mediate and even if he had responded I could have proceeded to hearing)? The costs are ridiculous and I'm sure ex enjoyed ramping up my expenses. Nonetheless he appeared at the hearing and got totally rollicked by the judge. She focused on the criteria for determining consent (you can Google it) and then basically slammed him over each point, giving me the consent we needed. Kids didn't speak to him for months but he still felt he was 'morally'right to refuse consent. It was pure malice. The arrogance is off the charts. If we go abroad again before the kids reach 18 I honestly think we will just go and not tell him as he would absolutely make us go through a hearing again just to be awkward and enjoy me having to pay for the privilege, even knowing he will lose again. Can't get a CAO for 16-17 year olds so there is no other recourse. They need to do something to align the court and FCO stance. Good luck.

Do people actually get stopped? I have a court order so take that with me but I've been abroad to visit family twice a year for 5 years and have never been asked.

Honestly I would just go once your youngest is 16 and let him tantrum.

What is he going to do about you doing something "illegally"? Police won't be interested, courts won't be interested.

Yes, happened to some people I know. A malicious ex contacted the port and had them stopped even though she agreed to the trip.

@whycantitbecalm

Why are you giving him so much power. He'll be telling people something no matter what you do. If not on this, then something else.
No one sane will believe his crazy story of you somehow "kidnaping" your nearly grown children to go on holidays.
You do not NEED his permission, and certainly do not need to give him an itinerary.

You are completely within your rights to ignore him.

Just go on holidays and not worry.

I really think you need to stop caring about what days or tells others.
As for consent to go abroad with older children - it’s really unlikely that you’d be stopped at their ages so I would just go next year. He would ruin his relationship with them if he tried to control their trips away.